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Tags, 3 buck 3 doe and House Bill 1054

With the proposal from LDWF on tags and the three buck, three doe deer limits, I had some inital thoughts as to how this could affect the people trying to manage the numbers of deer on their property, the individuals that horn hunt, the people hunting that have limited opportunities in number of days and the people hunting public lands and WMAs. I personally felt that one could possible still kill all the meat they needed and still protect the number of bucks killed and to be perfectly honest, I felt there were some trade off but I could support this proposal. I however when looking at the pre-filed bills ran across this one and have some mixed feelings as this puts a new light on the LDWF's proposal. The House Bill 1054 reads as following:
Page 1 of 2
CODING: Words in struck through type are deletions from existing law; words underscored are additions.
Regular Session, 2006
HUNTING/DEER: Authorizes the issuance of bonus deer tags
To enact R.S. 56:108(C), relative to deer and turkey tagging; to authorize the issuance of bonus tags for the taking of deer; and to provide for related matters. Be it enacted by the Legislature of Louisiana:
Section 1. R.S. 56:108(C) is hereby enacted to read as follows:
§108. Deer and turkey harvest records and tagging; bonus tags
C. The department may issue bonus tags for the taking of deer in excess of the annual bag limit established by the commission. There shall be no limit per hunter to the number of bonus tags issued for the taking of antlerless deer. However, only one bonus tag for each hunter may be issued for the taking of bucks. Each bonus tag for the taking of bucks shall require payment of a twenty-five dollar fee and each bonus tag for the taking of antlerless deer shall require payment of a twenty dollar fee. The commission shall adopt and promulgate rules and regulations
governing the issuance, use, and reporting of bonus deer tags. Any revenue received from the sale of bonus tags shall be used to fund the deer and turkey tagging program.

Section 2. This Act shall become effective July 1, 2006; if vetoed by the governor and subsequently approved by the legislature, this Act shall become effective on July 1, 2006, or on the day following such approval by the legislature, whichever is later.

COMMENTS - Proposed law authorizes the issuance of bonus tags for the taking of deer in excess of the annual bag limit. It also provides for unlimited antlerless bonus tags but authorizes only one bonus tag for bucks. Antlerless bonus tags require a $20.00 fee and buck bonus tag a $25.00.

OK - Unlimited does for a price and 4 bucks ???
Widowmaker - work some overtime so you can WHACK and STACK.

Not so fast Papa-T, Just trying to find out the facts
Fact #1 - this pre-filed bill has a long way to go once the session starts. #2 Three of the Reps that introduced this legislation also sit on the House Natural Resource Committee with Jack Smith being the Vice Chairman, Lambert and St Germain as members, we know how they will vote. #3 This bill states: The commission shall adopt and promulgate rules and regulations governing the issuance, use and reporting of bonus deer tags and that any revenue received from the sale of bonus tags shall be used to fund the deer and turkey tagging program. #4 LDWF is hurting for money for new programs #5 Our Legislature should have more important things to tackle this session.
Now for the unknown questions?
Does our LDWF commissioners know about this? Is this of their doings? Is this their method of managing the herds doe population by areas? Will the number of available tags be different by the areas? Is this money what they are counting on to start the tagging program? Does this play a part in the role of going to tags and the new proposed limits.
Just too many unanswered questions !!
go figure
Just another case of trying to "act" like they are taking a step in the right direction, but proof that they don't have the balls to do it....Wow...extra buck tags....that ought to mean we will protect about an additional 1% of the yearling bucks this year...after all, the three buck limit would only protect 7% more than what are protected now....BTW....that is none....

So, I guess in summary, we will see some benefit from this program in about 35 years.....unless you figure in that fact that all the deer this year will be dead in 35 years anyway, so we will be starting over every few years anyway.....this is such a joke....simply pathetic....
There is an article in the Advocate about the WLF raising fees and new money to avoid a 2.6M short fall. This is just one item to raise money.
Holy-cow,Man-oh Man
What is this world commin to......3-does...3-bucks(ADDITIONAL BUCK TAG-$25.OO)...and then UNLIMITED bonus DOE tags at $20.00 a pop....I AM GONNA NEED A "DUMP-TRUCK".................NOT TO MENTION,I HAD BETTER GET STARTED ON MY NEW "WALK IN COOLER"..!!........Well fellas now you know,its all about that almighty GREEN-BACK....MOOCHO-DENERO...DOLLA-BILL...FAT-WALLET..!!Like I said from the start...I didnt think it was "BROKE"..??HAHA
No matter how you feel about the limits the extra $20/25 now makes it look like a fundraiser and makes a statement that the biology is less important than funds raised.
This can be simple 3 does means 3 does. 3 bucks mean 3 bucks. Come on that is plenty game for the freezer.!!!! TAKE A KID HUNTING, TAKE YOUR DAD HUNTING, take a friend hunting.

If you need more than 6 deer a year.( COOL) This gives great value to the DMAP program which is increadibly cheep for the ability to have your land ( half a$$ surveyed) and get doe tags that dont count against you. Only need 500 acres.

Sign up for DMAP. This give the dept a little bit of a fundraiser and they have to do something for the funds other than change there minds on limits when a revenue opportunity arises by shooting a 4th buck.. CHEEZY!!

Not all trophies are not monstor racks.
Hell a doe at 30 yards with a bow is dang sure a trophy in 90 % of hunters books.

Wack the does all day long just let the bucks get a few years on them. Dont sell extra buck tags. If the area need more bucks taken off of a particular place issue more buck tags to control the population people will be glad to help the balance of the Eco-system.

You guys begged for Tags you will get them now don't complain because it didn't go your way. I am against tags we didn't need them. So enjoy your new system plenty big bucks now....WLF's gets the last laugh $20 doe and $25 buck. Maybe the one extra buck can be a button buck.
Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for. How many hunters actually kill six deer a year. Any ethical hunter or sportsman will not kill six deer a year. I say leave like it is, the outlaws that kill more than they should will find a way even with tags.
Oh sure southnboy, I'm sure Whack em and Stack em Widowmaker is concerned about the balance of the ecosystem. The majority of the hunters in this state have a "Gimme Mine" attitude. That's why we're in the shape we're in.

That reminds me. The list of "Most livable states" came out yesterday. Is it any suprise that Louisiana came out 50th?
hats off
I don't think it will pass, but I think its a pretty good idea. By doing this, you will ensure that people turn in thier score cards. surely you will have to turn in the info on the first six deer before you can purchase bonus tags. That way the meat hunters can kill more deer, and the WLF get more info on the deer being killed. And when they finally realize how many people whack em and stack em, guess what? That will stop too. So, go ahead and buy these bonus tags and fill that dump truck. They are giving you the rope, all you have to do is place it around your neck and jump.
Bonus tags
JT, if you waded thru all the pre-filed bills, you saw that there are many that appear to be more of a waste of legislative time. I think the issuance of a bonus buck tag is a good idea,but the price is a little too cheap. It should be at least $50. Maybe even consider a 2nd bonus tag for $100, and raise a little more money for deer and turkey management. I think there should be a limit on the number of extra antlerless tags, and a higher fee for them.I find it somewhat ironic that those who wanted a reduction in the buck limits may get what they want,but are now hollering about the bonus tag...totally overlooking the fact that the limit would still be reduced by two bucks. That's a 50% reduction with the 3 buck limit, and a 33% reduction even with a bonus tag..(that is for those who love percentages)
Looking at it another way,30% to 50% of the bucks have a "chance" to move into another age group. If that's not good enough,then all one has to do is simply not shoot a buck,and let them walk on until they reach the age he feels is old enough to shoot.

It's weirdly funny that an effort to give the lower buck limit group what they want, has created more controversy than would have arisen if the limits had been left alone. One cannot have it both ways. Okay, I'm ready..,but remember I'm giving up alot of what I want with the new limits, so be satisfied with what you asked for,even though it may not be EXACTLY what you want. Sledge
Hmmm.... We're going to allow you to shoot 3 does and 3 bucks because we are concerned with managing the herd and thats what the majority of deer hunters want. But, hey, grease these sticky palms and shoot as many as you want. Pretty much throws stink all over the tagging for 'management' theories doesn't it? As I said someplace else a while back as far as I'm concerned deer tagging is nothing more than a thinly veiled enforcement tool. Can't wait to get pulled over on the interstate because somebody wants to see if my doe is properly tagged. Does anyone remember why Louisiana stopped using deer tags back in the '70s? As far as raising any fees is concerned LWF needs to practice in-house fiscal responsibility before going there.
The only thing I will have a rope around is a dead deer.......but I know someone on here got a rope around his neck and is so smart,its causing a lil blindness..?? Its amazing how when you get so smart,and that ole guy that lives in the back of your brain called "Mr.Wisdom",isnt quite as developed as you think he may be,dosent allow you to ever admit your wrong,or passes judgement to think that someone just plain knows everything.....thats when your vision seems to get a lil impared....and someone can easilly hang himself and wont realize it till its to late......"CRACK"........
Dude you are in your own little satistics world. Our hunting club is in the best shape its ever been and its not because of the WLF's or anything the state did to help us. Its by managing our own deer herd the last 30 years are better. I would say one of the reasons the northern states deer herd is doing so well is because of the short gun seasons and the warm winters the last bunch of years. Let them have a tough winter all those big boys will probally be dead by end of winter. You can't mess with mother nature.
just a guess
I would be willing to say that most of the people that want a tagging program will not shoot a 4th buck. Not over the 25 dollars it cost but, beacuse they are letting them grow a little and being selective.
eco system
that was a sarcastic comment saying that if you have 500 acres you have a good option. DMAP.. If you are over populated an need to take more deer off the place. There are plenty of people who will help. Get a box of doe tags and let all the neighborhood kids Wackem. DMAP tags dont go against your limit.. This was a supporting statement for hunters who want to kill more because the biology supports the cause. The rule is still 6 which is plenty... If you want to kill lots of deer shoot DOE... That all
Selection Choice
People have to realize that shooting a big healthy twin- fawn bearing doe, just because she's a doe, and then passing on a little knotty-horned,small-bodied buck go, is not a good management practice. That's where, under the present system, one can at least select what should be taken up to 6. If that includes 6 bucks, or 6 does, or a mix,then it is not going to hurt the over-all population,but can help improve the bucks. A knotty-horned buck,and an old barren doe eat the same preferred browse as a potential big buck. A landowner,or leasee, or anyone else that's really concerned about good deer should be able to exercise the option, and not have someone far removed try to tell him/them how it should be done. It would be great if one could get extra buck tags on DMAP,just like the antlerless tags. Sledge
I can't stand it
Can't take it anymore....just because you say something doesn't make it true....there is no such thing as a old barren doe in that there is no such thing as a doe too old to reproduce. Does, on average, will eat more than bucks as much of the time they are eating for 2 or 3...A little knotty horned buck I am assuming, maybe incorrectly, as being a yearling buck, and in every case, if you must shoot a deer, you will be doing much better, management wise, shooting the doe bearing twin fawns.

Body size is in no way related to antler size or potential. if that small bodied buck is that way because of food resources, then most definitely you will be making much smarter management decisions by shooting that doe....

I say again as far as this is concerned that it is just a case of some really stupid thought process going on....get it in your heads as I have that we will not see a change until our Governor is ousted and someone else who is more "deer minded" gets into the Secretary's position. Shame to say it, but it is the reality....
After further review of HB 1054
After further review of House Bill 1054 which has a long way to go before being passed and becoming an ACT. I have come to think this is nothing more than ENABLING legislation. See below KEY words in CAPITOL LETTERS.

The department "MAY" issue bonus tags for the taking of deer in excess of the annual bag limit established by the commission. There shall be no limit per hunter to the number of bonus tags issued for the taking of antlerless deer. However, only one bonus tag for each hunter may be issued for the taking of bucks. Each bonus tag for the taking of bucks shall require payment of a twenty-five dollar fee and each bonus tag for the taking of antlerless deer shall require payment of a twenty dollar fee. The COMMISSION shall ADOPT and PROMULGATE rules and regulations
governing the ISSUANCE, USE, and reporting of bonus deer tags. Any revenue received from the sale of bonus tags shall be used to FUND the deer and turkey TAGGING program.

This legislation is needed to be able to issue deer tags in excess of the bag limit. This DOES NOT mean they will or will not use them but gives LDWF the option. This could be used for herd management in large areas of public lands or in non DMAP or LADP areas.

Again, this only give LDWF the option and sets the price.
Name the price.....I'll giv'em a hundred dollars a tag......Im not like ole Soft Hands and neworleans cooter i dont want to die with the first dollar i ever maid.
I can stand it
I'm always wrong. But I practiced for over 45 years in the deer woods to get this dumb. Some people are just born with that asset. I will call those lying biologists with the WL&F and correct them on the "barren" doe thing. Also,I'll tell that biologist who told me the other night at the "public" opinion meeting in Ruston that he was wrong when he agreed the little knotty-horned bucks should be removed..(lord forbid,he said spikes,too)..and,gee, I always thought HE was pretty smart.
Dumb of me not to recognize that he wasn't,but like I said, I practiced. Ignorance is truly bliss..that makes me able to stand it. If couldn't,and if I was smart,I would find a forum with nothing but Mensa members so I could converse on my level. Sledge

JT, that bill may not even make it out of committee. But,even if it does, that is no cause for everyone to get bent out of shape over. That still reduces the buck limits for those that wanted the reduction. At some point,there's going to have to be some ground,whether we like it or not, that we all can live with. The future of hunting requires that we do live with it together,and not squabble among ourselves.
Why not shoot the last two and crack the last egg.
You people are ranting and raving about being able to shoot any number of deer. Why don't ya'll look beyond your selfish thinking and see that if this happens ,sure you will have a couple great years but then it will be over.Can you invision a season when you sit on stand and never see anymore deer.
the Depts fundraiser
IF a very low %age of hunters kill 3 deer a year and a lower %age kill 3 bucks a year and the dept knows this why would they think this is a revenue source. Just sounds like a pain in the a$$ program. A low revenue source. This could be outlaw encourager and almost impossible to enforce. Sounds like waisted effort. They could raise more money with a cake sale....J/j of course.
Any Mgnt has some simple requirements
The goal must be attainable
Must be able to track results
Must be Measurable over time...
I dont see any of these elements in place...
I have never been checked by a game warden other than duck hunting in 30 years. NEVER on the deer lease which is a rock throw off of Hwy 71 and has very easy access. We have been on Dmap for years so they know where we are. I think getting checked on the Interstate is not something I would never imagine to happen in this state. They dont care that much.. People are simply going to not tag the deer or buy a tag after they shot buck # 4. There are no elements of mgnt in this idea. Only a bad idea for a fundraiser.
Raise DMAP,licenses, or enforce current laws and enforce the fines, or learn how to budget a dollar.

Has anyone ever been checked on a public Road for deer in Louisiana. ( that was not near a bunch of Duck hunting)

Hey I enjoy seeing 20 deer per weekend. A nice buck every few weeks keeps me excited. Let the Bucks live a few years and shoot does for your meat and thrill of the kill.

Find some excitement take a kid use a bow. Then make longer shots and teach someone what you know. It is a blast trust me. Take what you need and share the experiance.
loosened that knot
Thanks Bull Tongue, I loosened that knot and I can see much better now. You were right, and I was wrong. I was wrong about the dog hunting being cut back this year.(just a hunch) I was wrong about the tagging system issue.(just a hunch) and who knows? I will probably be consistant and be wrong about the season date changes in area 6 and 7 that will be sprung on you at the last minute. and also the six point or better rule in these areas that might happen this year. Isn't that your area? Just a hunch, guess we will have to wait and see. Hope that dump truck driver is patient. Might take you a while to fill it up with a six or better rule.
that sounds like a good idea
You probably should go ahead and correct them on both that you mentioned, because they, not in just my opinion, mind you, but also to nearly every single whitetail biologist in the world, are incorrect. Of course, unless you figure that 21 year old doe that gave birth to fawns (the oldest ever on record in the wild) for all but one year of her life was just a figment of some tracking collar and biologists imagination, as well as the thousands of other deer in pens and in the wild that are tracked that dispell all of these very old myths.....

But, after seeing how far advanced we in LA are with respect to game management, I can clearly see how you can put your faith in what is said...."we don't want to manage for older age bucks because older age bucks are carriers of CWD".....BWWWAAAHHHAAAAAAHHHHAAAAA

You're right...such wisdom being taught in LA these
DRIFTWOOD: Come on man,I was not talking about you..??I did not mention your name not one time in that comment I made about "ropes"..??...You must be feelin a lil guilty...For what reason..??..See that,Wrong again,....But I always did "Admire a man that could admit he was wrong."......Your finally makeing a lil stroke...good improvement....keep it up and we may start callin you the "New and improved -Driftwood"...your welcome.....I must say Drift you been really nice to me lately..thanks
"Has anyone ever been checked on a public Road for deer in Louisiana. (that was not near a bunch of Duck hunting)"

Since you asked:

I've been stopped twice by LWF agents on a public road. Once for a license check - I guess he figured I had been hunting. And another for a license check and casual search of my vehicle for game (I assume). Both times in West Baton Rouge on the service road south of the interstate. I've seen LWF set up roadblocks in West Feliciana Parish where they stop all trucks and go through ice chests hoping to find untagged deer pieces. I've found them waiting by my truck after dark to check hunter orange. I've been checked once while duck hunting and once while fishing. I'm sure there are others on here who have had similar experiences.

I don't have a problem with any of the above because the agents are doing what we pay them to do. My reference to being stopped on the interstate was a bit facetious, but you can't rule out the possibility.
Wake up And look around
If everyone would wake up and look at what is going on in neighboring states that have three times the deer herd we have you could actually see how tagging systems do work and are enforced. I am for tagging,but not for "bonus tags". That is the most obsurd managment practice I have ever heard. I hunt every year in Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi; and really enjoy going to these other states that have had supreme managment programs in place for many years. Instead of arguing about the situation we need to educate our fellow hunters that the old philosophy of "if it's brown it's down" just does not promote good deer managment. Everyone needs to be educated to let younger deer walk and shoot mature bucks and cowhorn spikes only. I have seen these type of management practices, but killing all the deer a man can shoot if you have enough money to do so is very stupid if you want deer to hunt in future years. We need to protect this wonderful tradition and natural resource.
Chad, I'll have to let you contact all the world's white-tail biologist, as I lost my list of them,much to my chagrin. I just have to rely on what I read, and what those that may be in better position to know, tell me. Sure, I discount alot of it when it is contrary to my "experience" on the subject. But,reading and listening are the only outside sources I have on which to compare with my "experience".Where do you get all your "knowledge"? Surely,not from reading, or listening, to anything that had to do with Lousisiana, as you wouldn't believe those sources.

I wouldn't know a 21 year old doe if I saw one,nor doubt she could be fertile. There are 60+ plus year old women who have babies,but that's not the norm. But, I can tell when a doe is "barren"...I can't tell how she got that way..whether from disease,genetic defect, or improper food supply,but those do exist thru-out the animal kingdom,just like some humans can't reproduce a child.

My earlier comments on older deer and CWD came from an article in the 'Lousisiana Sportsman',by Andy Crawford,in an apparent interview with the State Deer Study Leader, Scott Durham..December issue,page 36. But, I should have known he was wrong. Sorry.

Southboy, you made good points, but we have been on an honor system for years, and I don't think the new tagging system is going to destroy the deer population. To advocate killing does on the one hand and then worrying about over-kill because of a liberal tagging system is not going to wipe out the deer my opinion,of course. It is the knowledge that one MAY be caught with an untagged deer that is a deterrent to outlawing. Without the tagging system,that "MAY" just didn't exist. Have a good one..both of you. Sledge,the blissful.
Pigeon, I've been stopped on public backroads a couple times by warden road blocks,also. Year before last,at night,4 wardens dropped in on our camp to check our DMAP records,and the deer in the cooler. Fortunately, all our records were "up to snuff",and the deer were tagged properly.I insist they be kept that way just on the possibility of that happening. It's that possibility, or the MAY be checked chance,that keeps alot of people from going a little over the edge. It makes me feel good to know that our wardens are doing their job,and wish we could afford more of them.
wildlife meeting??
is the wildlife meeting tonight in baton rouge??
yes,i usually get checked a few times a year by LDWF agents.On public roads and private roads during hunting seasons, and fishing, and pleasure sea-doo riding. My hunting club camps get some drive-by agents that stop-in to check-what we harvested.We expect that since we are fishing or hunting.We do not have a duck lease, so we get checked for deer or other self and most of my hunting buddies have lifetime licences and our agents in the area know that, and we still get checked because some of the private roads we park on also have other's that hunt on one side of the road so when they check they check all vehicles and everyone around..thank-you.
Maybe I didn't take what you said the right way about a barren doe...there are does that during the year do not have fawns, but not because of age....I may have jumped too soon on that analogy in thinking you were talking about that....virtually every single doe in the woods, regardless of age, has the ability to produce fawns...and gets bred at some point every year....some may not fawn because of food resources or time of breeding as you said...Injuries or other things can play a role too....My point was only that there is no such thing as a "barren doe" in that they won't reproduce once they get too old...we aren't talking humans here...

I know where you got that quote from...that's why I was laughing about it....not at you, but at that silly comment. If you do some research on it, you will see that traditional management practices actually promotes the "older age deer" more so than does QDM. The age structure of deer in a traditional program is very old in the doe segment, with it not being uncommon at all to have does in the 8-10 year range. Under a QDM program, the average age of both does and bucks is farrrr less than that. While you are checking on it, you will also see that does are just as likely to be carriers of CWD as bucks are. Areas that are traditionally managed are far more susceptible to spreading of CWD as densities are usually much higher, and the amount of much older does is well above the amount of adult bucks in a QDM program. Also, it is a fact that when talking of any disease, except for those that only attack juveniles of any species, the older you are, the more likely you are to contract that disease or illness. This is true for just about an animal ages, it is exposed to more things, thus the reason for more older deer than younger deer to be carriers....the humor I found in it was simply that it is just another excuse to not do something....
Glad to hear it
Glad to hear that there are random checks. I have never seen it before in LA and wondered if it happened and what areas.
When I ust to hunt in Woodville,MS we were checked in roadblocks most weekends.

In LA other than in areas where there is lots of duck hunting I have never been checked. I have had wardens walk right up to my duck blind and you can count on it opening day of the second split...