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Red Snapper

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Hey i'm just as angry as everyone else about snapper regulations, been trying to do some reading up about why the limit and season is so low. does anyone know who offically sets the limit and season for louisiana? and is there any plan on the agenda to the create a higher limit and longer season? any other info is much appreciated.
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Not sure who sets the Louisiana season, but there aren't really any Red Snapper in state waters anyway so it wouldn't matter if Louisiana made its season different than the Gulf Council.
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snapper regs
I think it is the National Marine Fisheries
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NON-COMPLIANT
I have heard some chatter about LA possibly going 'non-compliant' to the federal regs and making their own set of season dates and creel limits. I have heard that TX has already done so for this coming season. What I cannot be sure of is if we go non-compliant will that only be in respect to 'state waters'. Like mentioned here, there arent too many locations that red snapper could be harvested in state waters (inside 3 miles on any land).
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Blame your elected officials
Check out Texas's saltwater fishing regs.http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/fish_hunt/fish/saltwater_limits.phtml

4 red snapper ALL YEAR LONG within Texas state water WHICH IS 9 MILES FROM SHORE!!!! I have a couple of friends that snapper fish in Texas. One guy fishes red snapper within 3-4miles from shore. He fishes rock reefs for snapper and finishes the day bass fishing on the same boat and trip.

Why does Texas enjoy a 9 mile boundary when LA only gets 3? BTW, Florida's West coast also has a 9 mile boundary. I would have to assume that our brilliant legislators of the past either dropped the ball or sold us out. Maybe it has something to do with all the extra money the Fed Govt gets from all the rigs/leases in the extra 6 miles. I don't know, but I am pretty sure that the Fed regs are set on the total harvests for the entire Gulf (including Texas's all year 4 snapper limit). So as I understand it, Texans get to fish snapper all year and cut into the total recreational quota, helping us have shorter seasons every year.

I realize that there are huge areas throughout the coast that wouldn't have access to red snapper even if the state waters extended 9 miles, but it is the principle that burns me. I usually fish out of GI and Fourchon, and you can sometimes catch them within 9 miles, especially in cooler water.

Wake up people! These regs aren't to 'protect' the snapper fishery. I guess the tree huggers in DC haven't found out how many mangroves are caught off our coast yet or else there would be a tiny limit as well. Of course not, mangroves only live around mangrove trees, they could not possibly thrive around mean, dirty, evil, polluting oil rigs that eat the souls of every living creature in the ocean. The purpose of these regs are to hurt us, the sportsman, and to make offshore fishing impossible for most people since they don't have enough support to just make it totally illegal. $5+ marina gas and a 40 day, 2 snapper limit? Whats the point of fishing a rig in snapper territory? 90% of any fish caught at a rig from 50ft - 300ft are going to be red snapper. I caught a 20'' snapper on a sabiki at a buoy in open water last year. They are crawling all over the gulf like maggots on sh*t!

Sorry I needed to vent!
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big problem
Hey swampdeer you might not like what you find. It isn't encouraging.

Do some reseach on Dr. Jane Lubchenco, chief administrator of NOAA, former Environmental Defense Fund vice chairwoman. She was appointed by Obama. She is responsible for the red snapper fiasco that we are having to endure.

Maybe if Obama loses there might be some hope.

Dr. Jane Luchenco many believe wants all fishing shut down. She has been asked to step down due to scandals and for years now NOAA hasn't denied accusations that they are using bad data to manage the red snapper fisheries. Accusations border or outright claim falsification of the computer programs to give the desired effect. The desired effect is to show no snapper so you can't fish for them.

Currently there are more red snapper in the gulf of mexico than there ever have been thanks to the oil industries oil rigs which have greatly expanded their available habitat in the gulf. But Noaa would have you believe they are on the verge of extinction.

So do some research on her and noaa's data manipulation and you will see what we are up against. It isn't limited to Red Snapper. Fisherman in the Northeast have to deal with her as well. It isn't pretty.
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Fatally flawed
“Fatally flawed” is the a quote by the National Research Center to describe How NOAA collects recreational fishing data. So Congress mandated that the survey be replaced in 2009, but NOAA and the National Marine Fisheries Service have failed to correct the data.

Gestopo tactics in the Northeast. It is horrible. How would you like your boat boarder for a routine inspection to look for things like no over the limit fish and the agents holding you at gun point while they do it. Guns drawn with bullet proof vest. This is the new United States of America. It is happening now.
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Something's gotta give
The whole thing is crazy. What do we as a state need to do, to be able to set our own regs? Its being done in TX it seems. 12 months, 4 fish per day is reasonable.
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Red Snapper Fiasco
The 'fiasco' as you put it, began several years before Obama became president. I, like most Gulf fisherman, have no doubt that the current red snapper regulations do not reflect the reality of the healthy red snapper fishery. However, each time one of us frames the argument against the present regulations in a political context (an un-informed one at that.) we only hurt our cause. Obama has nothing to do with the over-regulation of the red snapper fishery and when we attempt to score political points rather than focus on the problem, we look foolish and no one will listen. That is part of the problem we now face. Focus on SCIENCE rather than POLITICS and we will make progress.
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disregard for the law
Obama is responsible for putting her in the position she is in. A change in president will be what it takes to get her out. It doesn't matter if you can blame obama for what she is doing are not.

I do because she has ties to groups that basically want to shut down fishing. And that is what she is doing and it isn't restricted to Red Snapper. Grouper, fluke and many others.

Bush mandated in 2007 that NOAA stop using the data services that they were using because the information was flawed. The deadline for changing over was in 2009. Still to this day NOAA is using the 'Flawed Data' on rebuilt stocks to keep people from fishing.

Dr. Lubchenco has flagrantly refused to follow the law and her resignation has been called for by senators from both sides of the aisle.

Her resignation was asked for because money was allocated to collect the new collection of data which would show the the snapper stocks and other species have rebounded. Dr. Lubchenco was illegally going to take that money and spend it on implementing a catch share program which would have allowed peta and other groups to buy up allotments of fish to keep both commercial AND recreational fisherman from access to those fish.

It took an act of congress literally to prevent that from happening.

The date on my computer shows that it is 2012, a full five years since Presidnet Bush signed the law to get NOAA to switch to a better data collection method. Well we are still waiting for Dr. Lubchenco to follow the law.
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Snapper and Politics
Mike,
I understand where you are coming from but please try to understand my point. Too many times, those of us who live to hunt and fish are our own worst enemey. When we sound like political hacks rather that concerned outdoorsmen, people will not listen or worse, their negative pre-concieved notion of a hunter or fisherman is re-enforced.
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I understand but...
I understand what you are saying but it doesn't apply in this case. I didn't attack Obama like I could have. But the fact is if Obama is re-elected then she will stay in power. That is just how it is.

Congress has already passed laws to stop her destructive behavior and attempts at policy change. They were successful on one count but on the other she has decided to ignore the law and has gotten away with it so far.

The only person she answers to is the President so if she is going to disregard the law then the only way to fight her policies is to do have her ousted.

She is and has single handedly destroyed many small commercial fisherman lives on the east coast. That is continuing. Now it is happening on the Gulf Coast. It started with red snapper and now has moved on to other species such as amberjack and grouper.

I don't want to just sit idley by why she destroys the lives of the charterboat captains and small time commercial fisherman.
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Snapper regs opinions
I was reading what Gadwall wrote regarding the 12 month 4 fish season and it started me thinking: What length season and limit could we have and still maintain the size/quality of the snapper we have now? I have been fishing for a long time and never before have I seen so many very large snapper. No doubt the 40 day 2 fish season is DRASTIC overkill. Give me a 10 month 2 fish limit season and as long as my two were hogs I would be fine with it.
Thoughts?
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whittled away
[quote]What do we as a state need to do, to be able to set our own regs? Its being done in TX it seems. 12 months, 4 fish per day is reasonable.[/quote]

Nothing. We already set our own regulations. Be the problem is you only have 3 miles to work with before you get to federal waters. Texas has 3 times that distance. East bay is the only place in Louisiana that you can fish red snapper and still be within the 3 miles state waters line.

Some groups and people are pushing for us (Louisiana) to stop matching our regs to the federal regs. just to send a message. Many are for this and many are against it. The charterboat association is against it.

They are against it because if Louisiana changed its regulations it might make it that much more difficult for them to make a living. Why? Because NOAA who is just itching for a reason to restrict the season and limits even more would have another excuse to do so by saying we are now catching more than we should. Noaa sets the catch limit for the entire gulf and that includes state waters.

If Louisiana did pass the law then it is likely people would catch more snapper because they would not need to worry about getting checked once in state waters. So the illegal catch would go up. This means the law abiding citizens would get a shorter season and the people willing to risk the 550 dollar per fish fine would be the only ones keeping more.
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Snapper and Politics
Understanding and expressing the politics behind these laws is one of the most important (and only) things we can do as concerned sportsman. Every federal government agency is a specialized enforcement arm of the executive branch. The White House appoints agency administrators who create their own rules and enforce them as they please. Checks and balances do not exist with these agencies, they create, enforce, and adjudicate their own rules. This is a purely political matter. Political agendas and 100s of millions of dollars from non-profits and special interest groups effect these regs, not science.
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Address and email
Why doesn't everybody just call her and ask her, or email her about these issues? This is America right? I know you people will think I'm being naive, but what the hell I don't have anything else to do.
 
Full Name Phone Number Email Address Organization Organization Title Position Title
Lubchenco, Jane  202-482-3436  jane.lubchenco@noaa.gov USEC/ADMIN OFFICE OF THE UNDER SECRETARY/ADMINISTRATOR Under Secretary of NOAA 
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What happened to 10 more days?
Earlier there was a post by Jeff Angers indicating that we were going to get an additional 10 days this year. I went to the Gulf of Mexico Marine Fisheries site and the federal register and it shows the proposed season to end on July 10. Didn't the season end July 19th last year? Additionally they are asking for comments by April 27th. http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/bulletins/pdfs/2012/FB12-028_Red_Snapper_PR.pdf I could only find 2 comments on the site. I posted a comment so we'll see if it shows up. Also they are proposing a season on Triggerfish. I read the proposal on line and its a joke. NO data. No tables or history. Only proposed action is no action. They changed the size limit earlier to 14 inches. If you fish Triggers you know this is a big Trigger. Most people don't even realize there is a size limit. It went from 10 inches to 14 inches. Currently you can catch 20 as part of the 20 Reef fish limit. I think the 14 inch size limit is all that is needed. Post comments on the regulations. http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/bulletins/pdfs/2012/FB12-028_Red_Snapper_PR.pdf
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Catch/Share
I forgot to mention the Triggerfish limit is along with Vermillion Snapper and a number of other species and is part of a catch/share proposal. From prior posts my impression is that this would allow groups like PETA to buy up part of the quota and not fish them.
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I might have an idea why
I am not an expert on this by any means, but I have seen on several occasions commercial snapper fishermen pulled up to the platform I was working on. They put their lines down say 50 hooks per line/ 6 or 7 lines. Once the lines are full the electric motor pulls them up. This may not be the case with all fisherman but the ones I have PERSONALLY seen pull up close to 50 fish per line and keep only 6 or 7. The rest were tossed over board and left to die because they didnt fit the 'slot'. After these guys leave this location there is no Snapper to be caught for a very long time. The kind of fishing these guys are doing is very wasteful. I'm sure there are better techniques to be used.

Just my observation of a few isolated events.
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trigger fish
response to the size limit of trigger fish. I think they increased it because there have been less and less caught but i think the reason less have been caught is because of the over population of the red snapper that is soo aggressive that they run off and eat other reef fish and the population goes down, we need to be able to catch more red snapper, i have a camp in Dularge and go offshore fishing, I do have to along ways off but every trip we catch 20 to 30 pound redsnapper while the average size in Fl is 5 haha, i think the problem is in Fl and we do need to regulate it their, Also to solve the problem we need to zone the gulf instead of the whole gulf to get our limit and season dates.
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