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Biloxi marsh

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Looks like the air cooled engine restriction for the Biloxi WMA thread was removed. Someone must be upset.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
I thought only the poster or the site 'monitor' could remove a post.
I got a response from Steve Smith at WLF concerning a couple of questions I had about the proposed LAA. He said that this LAA would be a year round policy. He could not answer my second question about using major bayou's inside the LAA to access other areas outside the Biloxi management area. He forwarded this one to someone else for an answer. If a surface drive can't use a major bayou then I wonder why would an outboard be allowed to do the same?
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Re: Biloxi marsh
Its not an LAA. No air cooled engines any where on the management area any time unless its 16 hp or less and a long tail. Yes this is ridiculous as far a navigation. People with other leases not owned by Biloxi marsh land company have to get a permit to pass through the management area. Outboards can go where they want when they want. And you can garauntee that the LDWF enforcement will be out there to make sure the rules are followed instead of dealing with the real violations. No i did not take it down so it must be the site administrator. He must be friends with the Biloxi Marsh genius.
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It sounds like they have amended the HP restriction to 25HP or less on 'straight shaft' or 'long' tail air cooled engines. It did make it clear that 'all' other means of air cooled locomotion is prohibited. And it even singled out surface drive engines as being prohibited. So basically, if I understand correctly: you can only operate long tail mud motors 25HP or less on Biloxi WMA. Maybe there will be a resurgence of long tail sales!
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Right because long tail mud motors are completely different than surface drives when they go through mud. There are some stupid people on this planet incharge of way too many important decisions.
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Incredibly ignorant people.
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I guess a 25 horse power long tail air cooled engine does less damage to marsh than a 35 horse surface drive. I can definantly see how an engine with a long tail that digs deeper into the mud can be less damging than a air cooled engine that runs on the surface of the mud. Seems to me that LDWF and or the landowner have something against surface drive engines with no interest in the health of marsh. Who is Driving this ship????????? Common sense must be on the bottom with the anchor.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
This guy is behind it all...tbaker@wlf.la.gov
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The decision to limit surface drives on Biloxi WMA was made by the Biloxi Marsh land corporation. Todd Baker is in charge of all the coastal wildlife management areas and he is just going along with the landowner on this. I promise you of all the people at the Department of Wildlife and Fisheries he would be the last person to impose such restrictions on such an under used WMA. In the past 10 years Biloxi has become my primary hunting WMA second only to Delta National Refuge and Pass a loutre WMA. I feel the same as you Bill Collector on this issue but have to accept the outcome of their decision due to the great waterfowl hunting Biloxi has to offer. I will just have to do it old style with flat boat and pirogue.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
Exact quote:

The proposed regulation change is designed to reduce habitat
damage within Biloxi WMA. We believe it will help preserve the fragile marsh on
which many species of wildlife and fisheries depend. This move is also
supported by the landowner.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
Can't believe you all are mad about this. I wish the WMAs in north LA were a little tougher to get to. Can't get away from anyone anymore.

LDWF has its hands tied here. They do not own the land. They can do what the landowner asks and provide thousands of acres of prime waterfowl habitat to the public or they can not renew the lease no brainer to me
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News flash the marsh is washing away and there is nothing we can do about it. Whoever thinks that reducing mud boat traffic will change anything is delusional. Regulate the mud boats don't ban them. Nothing is going to help, sediment in the river in not enough to re-create what happpned hundreds of years ago. Delacroix has all but washed away with a fresh water diversion pumping it. Hurricanes and oil industry will do more dammage than anything like mud boats ever will.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
I bet if the tables were turned and they said no outboards air cooled engines only there would be some ticked off people.
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That's exactly what I told Mr. Baker. Regulate where MM's can and can't be used on the WMA and have enforcement do their job and write tickets. The word would get out.

LDWF is taking the easy way out!
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Re: Biloxi marsh
I agree that this will not fix the erosion problem that continues after every hurricane or high water event. This is a Bandaid for something that Mother Nature will dish out year after year.
I still don't understand the difference between a surface drive and an outboard running in a major waterway. I guess 50 years of running boats around in the marsh just isn't enough time to understand this scientific reasoning.
This will cut the mud motor use to zero. Anyone using a 16 or 25 hp longtail to run to anything above Stump Lagoon better bring a lunch.
Still, the landowner has the right.
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With a 25 hp longtail you are looking at a 30 min to 1 hour run to hunt about 75 percent of Biloxi wma. It's about a half hour ride in a go devil goin to stump about 18 mph.
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OK Duckhunter7777. When I used my 20hp go devil longtail on a 16x44 go devil boat it took me 30 minutes just to get to Bayou Alphonse off Bayou StMarlo. It took another 20-30 minutes to get into the back where I hunted. Also, to get to another area above Stump Lagoon it took me about an hour and 30 minutes. A 35hp longtail would cut that time, a 35hp surface drive would cut that time even more. The idea that a smaller hp longtail or surface drive will cause less damage than a larger is ridiculous. If the landowner or the land manager believes this will help, then I expect to see other changes in the future that will shock everyone, including fishermen using OBM's. Oh, and who sells a 25hp lontail? A 23hp Briggs and a 27hp Kohler are the only motors close to a 25 I know about. Not that it matters!
I keep thinking about 'Coot' and his duck hunting trips with his kids while using his surface drive duckboat. It's a damn' shame that a good guy like him will either have to changeup his transportation mode or quit hunting on the Biloxi Management Area. I would like to hear his thoughts about this new rule.
Duckhunter7777, I started duck hunting with my Dad in an old cypress plank pirogue in 1957. We hunted Bayou Bienvinue, then upgraded to a boat with a small OBM to hunt Delacroix Is. using Mr. Mac Melerines launch. Next to DesAllemands at Lake Salvadore on a lease and then to the Salvador Management Area when it first opened. Until 10 years ago I hunted much of the Biloxi marsh with family and friends. I started running from Pips in 1973 to a friends lease up on Lake Eugene and moved to Bayou Housse[Sue], Bayou Alphonse, and many others still using a flatboat or open fiberglass hull with an outboard and pirogues. I have also launched at Fort Pike with a V-20 Wellcraft and made the runs across Lake Borgne for overnight trips, something I would not recommend. Sometimes duckhunters will loose all common sense. I still primarily fish Lake Borgne and the Biloxi area with my bayboat using the Rigolets Marina. My point hear is that I have spent a lot of time in the Biloxi marsh area. I now usually hunt the Pearl, Manchac, and Maurepas, which are all state lands. We never kept track of how many ducks that were killed because limits were the rule and many were 10 duck limits when they existed. We pasted on any divers and even teal most of the time to get only big ducks. Since Katrina things have changed, at least for me, but I don't need a limit anymore to have a good time. I just wanted to give you and others an idea of my background.
Now that I am older and retired[5 yrs], I planned to start introducing my grandkids into duck hunting with me. But that isn't going to happen out of a pirogue. This past Dec, I took my 8 yr old grandson in my duckboat to the south end[not in LAA] of the 'Prairie' for one hunt. The hunt was not productive but still we had fun. Imagine if we were allowed to hunt the better parts of the 'Prairie'. I guess you are young, early 30's I figure, and like other young duck hunters may not care about older hunters. But rest assured, if you keep hunting, one day you will be a senior hunter and you will have a different perspective. I have seen older guys stop duck hunting in the Manchac area because of that LAA, and that was a shame. I would watch them and like me hunt till 1 to 2 with not much to show for it but having a better day than others going to work. I still smirk when I watch all the vehicles heading south on I-55 in the AM while I am going to the launch. I put in my time[34 yrs] doing the same thing, I called the 'Redneck 500'.
If new hunters cannot be brought into the sport I fear that duck hunting will not survive the future. This is why on past post I have commented for support concerning LAA exemptions during youth day hunts and full season exemptions for handicapped and even senior licensed hunters. These people were and are not the problem and I believe they deserve a break. But no one seems to give a damn' because not many other duck hunters have responded.
Remember the cliché, 'Be careful what you wish for'.
I'm done. One old fart over and out!
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Im 36 years old and been In Biloxi marsh all my life..my dad and grandpa to..had 5 camps in stump..remember hardly ever seeing boats out there..we lease land by goose flat..now boats everywhere. .technology made it So easy. .I never use my gps..ran that land all my life
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Go devil boats are to heavy to get speed with longtail you need a lightweight aluminum boat. I've hit over 20 mph in mine before but that was running solo. I agree MeV about youth day should be exempt.
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Does anyone else see the irony in this discussion? When use of waterways is brought up on here the general answer is to get get your own lease or buy land.

Now we have a private owner making rules for his private land and people are crying a foul. How about you get your own lease? Or buy your own land?

Zero sympathy. I hope the close off the whole thing. It's the only way anything will ever get fixed. Just wait and see what happens when Delacroix decides to start enforcing trespassing laws. Not only is the whole area going to be closed off but some people might even go out of business.

You have to pay to play.
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Thanks goodness delacroix corp allows us to fish these duck leases because it is ALL leased up. There is virtaully no private land in delacroix. Then you talk you want biloxi land corp to give up the lease because they dont want surface drives then what they may restrict fishing to only private leasholders so be careful what you wish for.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
I think the owners of the Biloxi marsh should close the entire thing off to everyone that doesn't have a lease. I would like to see zero public land south of the saltwater line. Then all the property owners to use their own money to save the marsh and the tax payers can stop footing the bill.

If you want to fish or hunt, get lease.
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Are you feeling ok biofish? lol
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I'm just tired of the bullshit. People are either complaining about being chased out of private marsh or complaining about private owners making rules for their private marsh.

We need to have public access or we need to cut off public funds.

What's even worse is the vast majority of people who fish, don't own any water and they aren't standing up for themselves. Then you have land owners spreading rumors about having people arrested or making up lies about having the Fourchon Harbor Police patrolling their private water.

The whole thing is stupid and it's only going to get worse if people don't start making noise. Write your representative, tell them no more tax dollars to save someone's duck lease.
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yes i can see your point. I believe la is the only state that has private water in the marsh? I could be wrong not sure.
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Louisiana is the only state with private tidal water.

Don't even get me stared on Fourchon Beach. The amount of tax dollars being spent to restore a beach that is effectively private is sickening.
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Bio this really isn't what you are thinking. I think the surface drive restriction is going to make a pretty limited difference in erosion. Also I think a bunch of folks herding ducks off the WMA onto my lease is pretty swell! But asside of my personal feelings about this the land owner is well within it's rights to make this request. At no time has Biloxi Land (of Terre aux Bouef or Delacroix Land or the Leons) tried to restrict waterway acess or fishing on their properties, further Biloxi land has provide 40K acres of fair to good duck hunting land for public use essentially for free for half a century or so. For years they participated with the DWLF on methods to improve things (weirs, dams ect.). They feel now that SD traffic is detrimental, specifically that folks are cutting new trenasses at high tide and greatly deepening existing trenasses at low tide as well as running over the marsh at high tide. Are they right? Perhaps perhaps not but it's their land and they aren't just making this move on the WMA they are making it on all Biloxi Land property. It does suck that there isn't an exemption for hunter over 60 and the disabled. On the other hand they aren't doing this to screw people, they are to their minds trying to preserve this area so future generations can enjoy it. To be frustrated that your plans are altered based on a premise you don't believe in is fine, to say Biloxi Land is an evil corporation is ridiculous as they behave in a very generous manner that includes forgoing private lease fees for hunting on almost half thd acreage owned, not trying to have fee for acess fishing (it would be easy for them to shut down a lot of marsh), and not pricing leases out of the range of sanity. The reality is by having this restriction they will lose money ( on private leases) but they prefer that to losing a little extra marsh every year. So maybe you think they are wrong on the facts bug certainly one should respect their motivations.
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Make no mistake about it, Biloxi Land is not giving the state of Louisiana anything for free.

As for Biloxi Land, Terre aux Bouef, Delacroix Land, the Leons, ect... Just because they have not restricted access, does not mean they will never restrict access. Nor does it mean their lease holders are not restricting access.

At this point our recreational fishing industry is big enough to support these local economies. Sweetwater launches something like 150 boats a day during duck season. BSM is full of in state and out of state guides from September through January. At any point in time it can all be stopped. Not only can it be stopped, tax dollars are being ear marked to help restore these private marshes even when the canals dug by the owners are to blame for a lot of their problems.

Try articulating to someone who lives in Natchitoches that all these coastal restoration projects are using tax dollars to restore marsh that they aren't even allowed to use.
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Here I think you are on to something Bio, it would be wise to put strings on private land coastal restoration funding to insure we don't build marsh to have it leased for fishing. But my point still stands that unlike other parts of the state private land owners in SE LA haven't chosen to exercise the full extent of their property rights under LA law. I agree the law should change and all tidal waters (but not adjacent lands) should be considered navigable. As it stands though I still think we are better off with a no SD Biloxi WMA than no WMA at all, and that's the only choice the LDWF is being given.
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First, thanks to all the guys who believe some exemptions should be made for LAA rules,where possible.
Second, Biofish is right on the money here concerning tidal waters and landowner rights. Landowners controlling tidal waters is only possible because our state allows this to happen. Yes, Louisiana is, as far as I know, the only state that allows landowners to control waterways. As Biofish said, this will not go away unless all fishermen, hunters, and boaters start complaining to their political representatives. But in our state money talks and **** walks. Except, fishermen and hunters vote and that can trump that card. The waterways should belong to the state and the public. The way the laws are now, the Biloxi area landowner can do what he wants with the tidal water. This was what I was implying when I said the latest issue with surface drives could be only the beginning of a much more restrictive future for everyone. Other areas have already seen this happen. If we see more tidal waters restricted and enough people impacted, I would expect to see an outcry that would force our elected leaders to make a change to the existing tidal water law.
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You know MEV I never considered it from quite that point of view, but I see what you are saying now. I think it would take CCA, DU, the NRA, and maybe BSA/GSA to muster the muscle to correct our navigable water laws. There is tremendous political will to see the current regime continue and legislators are loathe to devalue property in their jurisdictions which would be implicit in such a move. I agree it should happen but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not trying to defend Biloxi Land but I also grasp that they aren't trying screw anyone out of a place to hunt and fish. Bio is absolutely right to say restoration funds on private propert should come with strings.
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If the Biloxi Marsh company did decide to restrict the waterways to the public it would take a large on water police force to enforce no trespassing. I might just figure out what the cost of the tickets will be for running the surface drive in the management area after this ridicululous move takes place and work it into the hunting budget. I am sure that there will be agents to enforce this for the first half of the season. But I doubt that they will be out there with any frequency for the long term. I have hunted out there for a long time and only saw and agent out there one time at the launch. The whole notion of restricting a specific engine type in a 40,000 acre area is ridiculous. LDWF does not have the manpower for that. Aside from that look at the Google aireals all of the bayous and canals that have already been there are widening from boat traffic in general. Especially charter captains fishing the area day in a and day out to make a living. Every time I have gone hunting I see the smae captains running boats with 6 people loaded down sometimes with twin engines running through there destroying the marsh. Its unfortunate that land ownere knows nothing about erosion and causes of wetland loss. Katrina caused more problems then anythig else out there next would be oil and gas, then wind, then boat wakes, then mud boats.
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If you are going to allow 25 hp godevel boats to tear up the marsh and twin engine outboard charter boats to erode the canals you lose the validity of the argument. Not to mention the bow fisherman that tear up the area at night with outboards in shallow water. What is the real reason because that restriction wont prevent land loss. It will continue. Boats or no boats.
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Theres definitely not enough agents to stop it completely. It is however a 350 dollar fine for the first offence running a motor in laa i belive. Im sure it goes up significantly from there. In my opinion the only time you would ever see an agent is in bayou la loutre, st malo, or in bayou biloxi. Ive never ever ever seen an agent anywhere else. Actually only time i been checked was in muscle bay itself coming back from a hunt and that is probably in 3 years of solid hunting there. It wont be worth it if you get caught though.
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A few years ago this tidal water law was a hot topic and I believe was debated by or politicians in Baton Rouge, but nothing changed. The problem is that not enough people are impacted yet. But if, no when it gets worse and it effects enough fishermen, hunters and boaters there will be enough of a push to make that change. Think about who is impacted when boaters are not allowed to use waters that should be open to the public as is in all other states. A reduction of tidal water usage would effect all boat and equipment sales, fishing and hunting equipment sales at sporting goods stores, convenience store sales[gas, ice, snacks, drinks,...], boat launches, etc. and all of these sales are taxed by the state. When enough people are effected the **** will hit the fan. According to a NOAA 2006 report on recreational saltwater fishing in Louisiana, it had an economic impact of 1.2 billion in this state and 185 billion in the U.S for both commercial and recreational.
Remember what I said about 'Money talks and **** walks'.
The last time this tidal waters law was an issue the La. Sportsman magazine had a very good article about it explaining the possibilities under the present law. What Biofish said about Delacroix Is. is true, in fact the only waters that would not be effected if landowners decided to shut it down, was Lake Pontchartrain and that's scary. They had a map showing all of the southeastern marshes and most of it was privately owned by large corporations. Do a search and read that article, you will be surprised.
We all have been fortunate that most landowners allow public use of the waterways and I am grateful for that privilege. You can't really blame the landowners from doing what the state allows under the present law. That has to change. This latest Biloxi Management Area rule is an example of how ridiculous it could get if allowed.
This is a topic that Don Debuc needs to get on his show. Most people who use the waterways have no idea about this law and need to get educated before it is too late. Anyone can send him a note at his Outdoors with Don Debuc site.
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Just found this from an old post. This is an Ownership law of waterways. It will blow your mind! So what is going on?

2011 Louisiana Laws
Revised Statutes
TITLE 9 — Civil code-ancillaries
RS 9:1101 — Immovables

Universal Citation: LA Rev Stat § 9:1101

CODE BOOK II--THINGS AND THE DIFFERENT

MODIFICATIONS OF OWNERSHIP

CODE TITLE I--THINGS

CHAPTER 1. IMMOVABLES

PART I. IN GENERAL

§1101. Ownership of waters and beds of bayous, rivers, streams, lagoons, lakes and bays

The waters of and in all bayous, rivers, streams, lagoons, lakes and bays, and the beds thereof, not under the direct ownership of any person on August 12, 1910, are declared to be the property of the state. There shall never be any charge assessed against any person for the use of the waters of the state for municipal, industrial, agricultural or domestic purposes.

While acknowledging the absolute supremacy of the United States of America over the navigation on the navigable waters within the borders of the state, it is hereby declared that the ownership of the water itself and the beds thereof in the said navigable waters is vested in the state and that the state has the right to enter into possession of these waters when not interfering with the control of navigation exercised thereon by the United States of America. This Section shall not affect the acquisition of property by alluvion or accretion.

All transfers and conveyances or purported transfers and conveyances made by the state of Louisiana to any levee district of the state of any navigable waters and the beds and bottoms thereof are hereby rescinded, revoked and canceled.

This Section is not intended to interfere with the acquisition in good faith of any waters or the beds thereof transferred by the state or its agencies prior to August 12, 1910.

Amended by Acts 1954, No. 443, §1.

Disclaimer: These codes may not be the most recent version. Louisiana may have more current or accurate information. We make no warranties or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained on this site or the information linked to on the state site. Please check official sources.

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Re: Biloxi marsh
They passed it. Now there is 40,000 acres of marsh that I cant access or pass through based on my specific engine type. That there is one reason I quit working for the LDWF. Politics and no one is allowed to think.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
Finally they do something that makes sense.
I hope they pass this on all the WMA. Might actually make me start hunting WMA's again.
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IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO see the birds not being run by surface drives every day before the season. I think you can hunt the area fine with an outboard. Not sure what the problem is you dont like it hunt somewhere else????? Its private land that grants public access and you (the hunter) want to tell the owner what u gonna do on his property. LOL give me a break.
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There not running birds up and scarring them away they are ' scouting '.
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I guess outboards are incapable of running birds from an area give me a brake. I dont think the simple minded understand the implications. If the land owner says no outboards or mud boats then what. No one can fish, hunt or pass through an area that should be legaly navigable water bottoms. If it was not a mangement area and I wanted to fish the Biloxi marsh with the all mighty destructive surface drive motor he would not be able to stop me unless he called the police to get me for trespasing assuming the water bottom I was on was not a state owned water bottom. The only way this works is because it is a management area and LDWF can reglate and enforce rules on it.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
Sure outboards can run ducks around but they cant go into every single pond on the whole WMA every single day. If you dont think its getting out of hand then I dont know what you are looking at. We have alot of people hunting these days so we need to stop being selfish and start doing things to help duck hunting and protect the environment for our kids. Its not about killing as many ducks as possible.
What they did with the Biloxi marsh might be a little drastic but I do love when they make areas limited access inside the WMA.
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So tidal waters should be open to public to fish because fish belong to the public...Does not the ducks belong to public??? So as long as you are hunting tidal waters you should also be able to shoot ducks....So in south La. there should be little need for a lease because you are hunting public owned ducks on public owned tidal waters....Crying and whining on this forum ain't gunna do you no good...You want to have it changed its got to be legislative...'POLITICIANS'...As it stands the property owners have control and you either abide by their rules or go elsewhere...Put the pressure on the 'POLITICIANS' to make the changes or accept them...It won't be much longer its gunna be all open water anyway because of the 'POLITICIANS'....
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Re: Biloxi marsh
'IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO see the birds not being run by surface drives every day before the season'.
Let's see, I remember reading post from several hunters who said there were not enough hunters in the Biloxi Management Area to keep the birds moving.
Billcollector, I guess the old cliché 'Louisiana has the best politicians money can buy' may also be expanded to other state agencies.
Bullcoon, You are correct that all of this complaining here will not change anything. In 20011 this same subject was a big topic on this site along with others and still RS9:1101 was passed by our politicians looking out for the landowners best interest.
If things do not change, no one will be allowed to use any type of boat to access waterways where large land corporations own the land in that area.
Until that happens, the public will remain satisfied and nothing will change concerning tidal water laws and waterways ownership.
Only in Louisiana.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
Hopefully everyone will make the best out of this situation and try to be positive and still have a great season out there in biloxi if thats your main hunting area.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
I had several email exchanges with Mr. Baker on this matter and asked him point blank on two occassions if the land owner instituted or demanded this change in policy.

His answers were as follows:

The landowner and LDWF are conderned about the current damage to marsh. By virture of our lease agreement, LDWF is obligated to preserve and potect the the property. LDWF proposed the language and the landowner agrees with the proposal.

The proposed regulation change is designed to reduce habitat
damage within Biloxi WMA. We believe it will help preserve the fragile marsh on
which many species of wildlife and fisheries depend. This move is also
supported by the landowner.

I personally don't have a stake in the game but I think it sets a bad precedent for the future use of coastal WMA's.
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Re: Biloxi marsh
Its a public resource accesible to all except those individuals who operate surface drive mud boats. Again who ever thinks that any action taken here and now will prevent os slow down marsh loss is delusional. Let people enjoy it while we have it because it will be gone soon enough.
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