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What was the reason?

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I'm kinda new on this site, but have been reading it for a couple of years and don't quite understand what gets pulled off and what is left to be commented on. I sat with my husband last night and read over the many comments that my post had generated and could not believe the nerve of some of those people that made comments. Saying that Capt.John made a seriously wrong decision by shooting a deer with a pistol makes no sense when others shoot deer with bows and arrows!
Not only that, but have none of those other so called hunters ever had to track a wounded deer with dogs that THEY shot with a RIFLE? I just don't understand what all goes on here and would kind of like an explanation if not here publicly, then on my email, please. Dinnia

Also, why does my post get sent back 7 or 8 pages overnight?
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   BangFlop
Explanation of what? Your guy got called out for being stupid and unsportsmanlike. If he actually killed a deer at the distance you referred to with a 9mm pistol he was extremely lucky. Your comparison with archery hunters is unfounded. Bow and arrow hunters, as well as most pistol hunters, know their kill ranges and most stay within them. Sometimes people take dumb shots. Occasionally dumb shots work, but more often than not result in misses or wounded no-finds.

For the sake of whatever reputation as a sportsman this Capt John has left I recommend you delete this thread as was the other and quit bragging about it.
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they have some real jealous a-holes on this site that have driven numerous people away. Don't let them get to you. they have something bad to say about everything. it's amazing how big and macho people are over the internet, but face to face they can't ague their point to save their life. they downgrade people to help them feel better about their own insecurity. Just post and don't worry about them...
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Dinnia first off let me say that any comments I made are no disrespect to you personally. Reguardless of what you are using you have an effective range. Just because I can shoot 70yds and hit my 3d target with my bow I would NEVER shoot at that range. There are too many variables that can alter the outcome. My shots are 35yds or less.

I don't doubt that under the "right" conditions a 9mm can and will effective kill a deer. But to shoot at a deer that far that is running is unethical and irresponsable. In your own posting you stated that after an "extensive" search and and some time later with dogs you finally found the deer. That tells me that the shot was less than lethal and didn't kill the deer quick enough.

Now getting back to archery equipment. My bow can and has effectively killed many deer quickly and almost always in sight of me with the exception of this Oct when the deer ran into a small gully. Even then the total distance from arrow impact to recovery was less than 50yds. There again you are getting back to your equipments capabilities and yours. Just because my 30.06 can shoot 400yds I dont shoot at deer that far, same with my bow at 70yds or a 9mm at over 100yds.

There is nothing that you can say or do that will change my mind. It was unethical in every way. As a certified guide he should know better. To even go deer hunting knowing that he didnt have one and would need one but counted on that someone would have one for him to use.

Im not one of these people that try to find the bad when someone makes a kill. I love hearing about other people's kills I get happier if one of my friends kill and I don't. What he did was wrong wrong wrong. I hope the rest of your season is great and hunt safe.
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I don't think anyone criticized the capt. for shooting a deer with a handgun. I didn't read any of the comments but I'd bet they were critical because he shot it with a handgun at 130 yards.

Sure people shoot deer with bows, but those deer are within 40 yards 99% of the time. People shoot deer with hand guns all the time. Had he taken a high percentage shot at 40 yards or so, I'm sure no one would have said anything.

Lets see him empty his clip at a target at 130 yards and if he can shoot 4" groups at that distance consistently, I'm sure the criticism will stop. If he practices at that distance often, like the bowhunters do, and is consistent at that distance, then kudos to him. But if he nevered fired that handgun and practiced at that distance then he and the deer got very lucky that he made a somewhat clean kill, and he made an unethical decision to take such a shot.
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Cowgirl, i have to agree i would not have posted that after over an hour of tracking ya'll found the deer taking it last couple of breaths. ??? that is camp talk, and might not be appropriate for a web forum. Happy Hunting
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   gauger
Slayah hatahs.
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   LSUlaw
I doubt the post got pulled because it was about Capt John. He posts as much as anyone and it almost always stays put. From what I can tell, the moderators of this site have a problem with cursing, using symbols for cuss words, vulgar language, and unnecessary name calling. I suspect one or more of the comments went too far, even after Mike gave a warning. Of course, I can't speak for LaSportsman, but that's my best guess.
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I'll go with Henry W...."good intentions,bad judgement"
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   LONG GUN
THE DEER IS AS DEAD AS ANY OTHER ON THIS SITE.THATS THE LOW DOWN ON IT ,,AND BS TO THE REST BECAUSE IVE BOW HUNTED FOR YEARS AND STILL DO..WE USED TRACKING LABS TO FIND WOUNDED DEER BEHIND SEVERAL OF DIFERENT PEOPLE'S BOW SHOTS INSIDE OF 40 YARDS AND THEY WENT OVER 300 YARDS AND SOME WERE STILL ALIVE FROM BAD SHOTS,ITS TOO BAD THAT DONT GET POSTED FROM BOW HUNTERS ,, IVE BEEN THERE.

STAY OFF THE SOAP BOX
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Long Gun nobody is saying that archery is any better at taking down deer than a hand gun. Yeah the deer is dead and im thrilled it was found. The rant is about a hunter using poor judgment in a weapon that was used beyond its reasonable expectations.
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We are one club Admiral...I think that is the point that is missed most. Was it an ill advised shot? Yea probably...Have I ever done somehting that probably wasnt exactly the smart thing to do? Yea we all have. No need for the name calling or mean spirited things being said. But in my opinion he shouldnt have taken that shot. He did though, the deer is dead...Move on.
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Cowgirl I didn't delete the post but someone else may have or it might have just gotten lost as that seems to happen for some reason.

The reason that this is getting such critisizm is because even though I have wounded and lost deer before with both gun and bow it wasn't because I took a shoot that the weapon or my abilities couldn't be counted on to kill the deer if the shoot were true.

If I were to shoot at that deer at that range with that weapon I would be praying for a miss because recoving the deer if it dies at all is a long shot. Shooting 200 yards with a bow is possible but to do it is plain wrong!

A 9mm auto at that range is NOT EVER going to be accurate and it will RARELY be fatal if by pure luck the bullet does hit the deer.

People are just upset because it wasn't the RIGHT THING to do!
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   JB
Very well said meat. This is all just a big loop. The same people question a story or picture and the same people always claim it is due to jealousy and then the threats start and then the post get removed. It is all just a big circle.
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   11 Point
I must admit that this post has opened my eyes. I have in the past made critisizing comments about peoples opinions and decisions related to hunting, whether it be dog hunting (which I still don't agree with), shooting small deer or whatever. I have seen the light. People will make good decisions, and people will make bad ones. Some people hunt behind dogs, some don't. Some people are concerned with where our respect for outdoors is going, and some are apparently not. Some people try to teach their young how to respect the wildlife and outdoors, and unfortunanlty some have no respect for the outdoors and will raise children the same. I think from this post on, I will continue to congragulate individuals when I think it is deserved, but will not post a negative comment. It seems as though when one person disagrees and makes a serious comment, that every Tom, Dick and Gerry must jump on the bandwagon and blow it out of context and make a big deal, and then of course there are the funny guys who make STUPID comments. Thanks Cowgirl for bringing to a better place. my 2 cents
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   Charley
I made a comment about your first post so I'll explain myself. Shooting game that is out of range is not ethical. 40 is total max shot for Ducks. I have shot farther in the past and killed them, but more times than not I clipped them and watched them fly off with one leg hanging, that made me realize I can't do those kinda things anymore 35-40 yards max. That was when I was about 18 and younger and stupider!!
I don't shoot a bow but I was going to buy one and my first question was,what is the max range? The guy at Chag's said "well, it will kill a Deer from 100 yards but a really good bow hunter will shoot no farther than 40 yards".
My point is that it is not that he shot it with a pistol, it was that he shot it way outside the pistols range, that is poor judgment. Just like sky busting Ducks at 60 yards, everybody complains about the yahoo's on WMA's that shoot 60 yard bombs at Ducks because it is not the right way to hunt and act. Shooting deer with a pistol is fine, but like ANY weapon you have to stay withen your range and that means passing up a lot of shots. Others are trying to twist what was being critisized, I am not saying anything about the weapon of his choice, I am saying the animal was out of range and he, as others put it, slung some lead out there to see what he would hit. If your not sure of a shot you pass that shot, if an animal is out of range you pass the shot. We as sportsman can't just go in the woods and act like rambo shooting shots that we know are not smart.
The proof of what is being critisized is in your own first post " your not going to believe this", because he made an unbelievable shot which means it was way out of range, if not than it wouldn't have been a big deal.
If you think about it, they guys calling him out for making a bad choice to shoot that deer were not the ones name calling, it was the guys defending him that were name calling. I stopped even replying to the first post cause it was a waist of time, we both have our opinions and that is that, no need to just get things heated up.
No disrespect was intended on my part I just disagree with the choice to shoot, I've made shots in the field at animals and kicked myself for doing it cause it was stupid.
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rabbit that would be an experience alright. i am getting out of a club after this season because there are too many members and all they do is complain about the next guy... they ruined a good thing for me.. o well, they can have it. i'll hunt somewhere else..
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I think bad judgement is taking a shot you KNOW you can't make. Everyone has different limitations and one person might shoot 100yds. with his gun while someone else shoots 300 yds. with same gun and consistently places his shot in the kill zone. As far as the deer taking a while to die, well you all know that happens with shotguns and rifles sometimes when you're well within range. I have to give Mr. Taylor his props for making the shot and even more importantly for making sure the deer was recovered. I think more deer are wasted from people not taking the time and effort to recover a wounded animal than from people taking a long shot. If Mr. Taylor felt comfortable with the shot there should be no negative backlash from anyone.
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   Gurise
wow,cowgirl seems they explained it well.understand?
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   Charley
If he groups his 9mm at 130 yards consistantly than hey, knock that deer down!!
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[quote]If he groups his 9mm at 130 yards consistantly[/quote]

I don't think that is possible with a 9mm auto! And even if he could the weapon at that range is way to underpowered.
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   Charley
True, that was my point, it isn't possible, like I had said before the gun just won't shoot that straight from that far. The post was kinda sarcastic, I know he doesn't put a tight group from 130 yards because the gun can't make that happen. As for the power of the bullet at 130 yards, I don't know I'm not a ballistics person.
I would take a challenge from long gun though. 9mm at 130 yards with an 8" target and 5 rounds. Every hit he gets 100 bucks very miss I get 100 bucks. What do you say Long gun?
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   BangFlop
"[quote]If he groups his 9mm at 130 yards consistantly[/quote]
I don't think that is possible with a 9mm auto! And even if he could the weapon at that range is way to underpowered."

I doubt he could even SEE the bullseye at 130 yards let alone hit a running deer offhand while standing in a ditch with an unscoped 9mm semiauto. Sounds like a beer-enhanced fairy tale to me.

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Cowgirl, I just checked and the original post is still up or has reappeared if it was missing!
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   wilford
Any of you that know Capt John will realize that if he's not already lmao at this, then he hasn't read it yet!!!!!

Come on, read her first post, it's full of "if I got it right", "I heard", "there were many witnesses", etc.

If any of ya'll believed that story from the start, I got some fine, high and dry, levee protected, Cat 5 storm proof land for sale in Buras!!!!!
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   LONG GUN
I LOVE A SUCKER -- AND I NEVER SAID A 9MM I SAID A 357 MAG. AND I ALSO SAID A 12'' PLATE. GO READ AGAIN..
IF YOU GOT ANY NUTS COME ON.... ILL POST IT AFTER.
PS DONT FOGET TO STOP AT THE BANK.
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   Charley
He used a 9 mm and so that is what the issue is about, like I said before a 357 is a lot different. Plus, if you can hit a 12 plat from 130 yards consistantly than props to ya cause I can't!
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   7mmkilla
YOU CALLED ME OUT . BUT ID TRY IT WITH MY 9. LIKE I SAID IVE TOOKEM DOWN AT 60 TO 80 WITH A 9 BEFORE,NOT JUST 1 EITHER.
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   7mmkilla
GONNA GET THE PICTURE IN A BIT LSU LAW..BRB
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I would like to see the results of that shoot Killa...I agree a 357 with a very good shot behind it might be able to do it, but a 9???? I SERIOUSLY have my doubts. Now at 80 that may be a diiferent story altogether...If you can though you are a much better shot than me. i wouldnt feel comfortable past 50 with a 9 and MAYBE 75 with the 357...I dont really think that the griping (orignally) was about a pistol hunter. I THINK it was about the fact that it really isnt all that ethical to shoot a running deer that far with that weapon. Plus, quite frankly, after reading Capt John L previous posts I kinda have my doubts he actually did that at that distance. Probably more like the 30-50 yard range which is STILL a heck of a shot...By the way are you pro balistic tip or aganist?
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   Charley
The post is about a 9mm killing a deer from 130 yards. I said that's not a good thing to do, the GUN is not going to shoot a consistent group from that range. So, now you come and start talking about how you can hit a 12" plate from 150 yards with 357. Yeah and I can hit a Duck at 60 yards with a 12 guage, so what!! The issue is a 9mm at 130 yards, that is what I disagree with and so if you want to defend doing this than bring the 9mm and a 12" plate and 5 rounds. Don't bring a 357 with a bunch of rounds and say each time you hit you get paid, what about when you miss?
If you can hit at 150 yards with a 357 than you are a really good shot, doesn't really matter because that's not the gun he used!!
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   7MAG_JAKE
The lady heard the story 2nd or third hand alright on a cell phone I believe so you know signal may not have been so great. We are beating this post to death maybe it was 30 yards or maybe it was 130 yards if it was it was a freak accident. Okay so lets just let this roll over.
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man if yall were standing there talking to someone and had a pistol in yall hand a deer jumped out on the road.you would say there ain't noway I could hit it,but,what the hell.It was probally kind of a split second decision that he didn't think through.He probally shouldn't have done it ,but,people do stupid things all the time when it's reaction and you don't have time to think.I know I have anyway.
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   7mmkilla
now your adding yards..i said 100

cluck=cluck=cluck==
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   Charley
man get a life. here is an exact quote from your first chalenge.

"HEY CHARLEY
IF YOU THINK IT WAS LUCK ?? I HAVE A BET FOR YOU.. ILL SHOOT A 357 W/ IRON SIGHTS AND HIT A 12'' TARGET AT 150 YARDS, YOU BRING YOUR MONEY.. I LIKE SUCKERS..
GUN"

So, yes I think it was luck that he hit a deer at 130 yards with a 9mm, like I said if you want to defend him than get your 9mm and 12" plate and 5 rounds and mark off 130 yards and lets have a good time shooting the guns. Don't start acting like I'm changing my story I've stayed the same, one more time, 9mm, 12" plate, 130 yards.

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   7mmkilla
100 A SHOT...CAN YOU FIND HOUMA LA. ILL USE THE 9 MM
IF I HIT 3 TIMES OUY OF 5 I WIN 500 ..

NOW PUT UP OR SHUT UP
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   7mmkilla
CLUCK-CLUCK-
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   Charley
like I said 9mm, 130 yards, 12" plate and 5 rounds. 100 bucks for you when you hit, and 100 bucks for me when you miss.
Yes, I know where houma is.
let me know buddy!
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   Charley
I need to sight in the .270 anyway for this weekends hog slaying!!
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   7mmkilla
NOW YOU GONNA WANT TO SWING THE TARGET ON A ROPE

PS IF YOU CANT AFFORD A CLIMBING STAND WORTH 200 YOU BETTER STAY HOME.. LIKE JLT I MIGET LUCKY
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   7mmkilla
3 OUT OF 5
COME ON DOWN
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can't we all get along!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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dang Charley you got quiet huh.you wanna hang with the big boys you gotta quit clucking.oh im so sorry i just walked on one of your eggs.hahehahe
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   7mmkilla
MY 45 CAL BLACK POWDER VS YOUR 270 AT 200 YARDS. I'LL PUT 3 ROUNDS IN A 4'' GROUP YOU GOTTA DO A 2'' GROUP .. NO VISE NO BAGS..
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look like charley went bye bye.bye bye charley.
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   7mmkilla
MOMS CALLIN GOTTA GO EAT
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   7mmkilla
long gun was fixin to snatch dat mans money and he done up and left.
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You guys who are arguing about accuracy and shooting ability are missing the point. Even assuming the shooter can confidently hit a deer in the vitals at over 100 yards with every shot from a 9mm, its the wrong thing to do. Just not enough power to reasonably expect a humane kill. Try this one. I can hit the vitals of every deer I see within 25 yards with a 30 pound bow and an arrow with a target point, and the deer will probably die sooner or later, and I might even recover it with luck and dogs, but who would condone such an act. That's what stirred up the real sportsman on this site.
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   Charley
you guys are like little kids!!
I have been making the same offer the whole time and ya'll just act like animals!! No I didn't run and hide, I have a job and things to do, I can't just sit here on the computer all day and night to wait for your reply.
Plus, I made a reply to your offer, and I said 9mm, 130 yards, 5 rounds, $100 per hit!! What is the problem I haven't changed it since I first posted it so don't start acting like I'm chickening out, and making harder and harder rules, you are the one twisting things.
Second off, this whole thing is retarded and has actually proven my point cause if you won't except my chalenge to 5 shots at 130 yards and 100 per hit or miss than that means IT IS NOT FAIR which means there is a better chance that you'll miss than you'll hit wich means it was a foolish shot to take. And ya know what? that's not that big of a deal, we all make bad choices while hunting sometimes, I think the whole issue was that all me and others were saying was hey, poor choice to shoot. Some said no, it was ok cause a 9mm can kill a deer at that range and it is not a freak thing to hit the deer from that far and all that. But, if you won't take me up on the offer I guess you are proving us all right, 130 yards with a 9mm was a LUCKY shot!!!
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   Charley
as far as the bet about the 270 with the and you with your black powder, no. cause I'm not worried about who is a better shot, man you have an ego dude!! Chill out a little, I'm not trying to say you are a bad shot I'm saying a 9mm is not accurate at 130 yards, don't take things so personal!!
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   Charley
As far as me being able to afford a $200 deer stand.
No, I'm not rich and don't pretend to be, plus after spending about 2,000 on all the other crap I've bought this year I'm sick of spending money on hunting stuff!! I just started a business and don't really feel like spending more than I need to on hunting, I'd rather save it for my business, but if you want to give me 500 bucks from missing those 130 yard bombs, hey, a good investment is easy to see!!
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just wondering if yall know if brittany found her undies yet!
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Yeah, I gave them back..I was done with them...errrrr I mean her :D HuntnFish.com
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   7mmkilla
long guns not here ,, but dont be shy.. you got 2 bet on thr table, it all on you right now.

charley ,he shoots nutria that far fer kiks
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   Charley
Not taking the counter offer, my first deal stands, not coming down to the other one.
this is rather stupid and I'm kina ashamed for even getting into this!
Take it easy fellas, if he wants to take me up on my offer just Email me!
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I'm with you all the way on this little kid thing Charley, I'd bet $200 a shot that Ol boy there cant hit 5 outta 5 at 130 with a 9mm. And one more thing little boy, if we didn't live so far apart from each other I'd put my .270 up against any old school smoke pole you could beg steal or borrow and I know for a fact that my ol betsy would take your money. I don't want to start a rucuss on this but you need to look at the things your putting out here for every to discriminate against. 130 yards, 12" plate with a 9mm, not a very likely combination cuz. I don't think so, I betcha 5 bones up front that you won't hit it 3 outta the five period. Nuff said. Sickem Charley
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This bet thing just proves everyones point...So your the BEST shot in the world and you can hit that plate 3 maybe 4 times out of five. You would top shelf, and have my respect and admiration for being that good. The problem is, as ETHICAL sportsmen, if we arent 100% CERTAIN that EACH shot that leaves our barrell will hit with 100% confidence inside on that plate you spoke of (I assume because thats about what the vitals are on a deer), then its a shot that shouldnt be taken. If you cant 100% say that it will hit there 5 out of 5 times then its not a ethical shot. Now, if that target WAS moving then there is no way you can say it would get hit 5 of 5 times...Some people were bashing Capt John. They shouldnt have without full knowledge of what happened. And until we hear it from him we dont have that knowledge. However, if ANYONE takes an unethical shot, they should be called on the carpet. There isnt really a need to do that type of stuff. As far as everyone bashing finding a still live deer after hours of tracking, welcome to deer hunting. It happens. Get over it. Geez guys just let it rest. I guess the whole point is that hey I could go out and get as much skirt as I want (married by the way). But just because I CAN doesnt mean I SHOULD. There is the potential for alot more bad to come of it than good...thats all I'm saying guys...But I still would be curious to see what the outcome of that bet would be ON PAPER not on a deer though...That would be some kinda marksmanship to pull it off...
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I am with you charley. I bet capt John even thinks this was a lucky shot. But, as for the original bet??????? Haven't heard 7mmkilla accept. must just be blowing hot air. Well gotta go this is getting to be so boring. It's like hey! mine is bigger than your's!!!!!!!come on grow up
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   Charley
Let me say that I should have not even posted, because like others have pointed out this was not posted by Capt. J so it is second hand, I should have waited and seen if it is even true before we start throwing mud, my apology for that one.
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   7mmkilla
wipe the snot P.E.T.A boys , and he did accept the bet .whats the difference a hundred a shot either way.. he accepted with a 9 mm after you cryed for 3 or 4 comments//
SO BE A MAN AND TAKE THE 3 OUTTA 5.
THERES A LOT OF SMOKE BLOWIN ALRIGHT'
HOUMA AINT FAR DUDE. WE GOTTA 500 METER RANGE MARKED OVER HERE.
SAVE CHARLEY THE P.E.T.A. REP HUNT THE HUNTERS
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   7mmkilla
THIS IS BETWEEN LONG GUN AND CHARLEY

ON PAPER ONLY
YES JLT WAS LUCKY.. IF IT HAPPENED.

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   Cowgirl
I just left Clark's Guns on old Hiway 80 going out of Bossier City after talking to the great folks there that DO know what they are talking about. I asked them what they thought of someone shooting a deer with a 9mm Pisto. They gave a "Ho Hum" remark as it happens all the time and they sell and furnish ammunition to quite a few of hunters that hunt with pistols.
NOT only that, but as I was telling them about the huge debate over the internet on the LSM site, the whole lot of them offered this for me to let you all know. They said for any of you that thinks that you cannot group a 9mm from a bench at 130 yards, to go by your bank and make a cash withdrawl and come on up to Bossier where they would set up a 14" diameter target at 130yards and have MRS(yes MRS.) John Clark sit down and put ALL 15 rounds in that plate!

They also said that they just could not understand what the big deal was, as they are probably the formost trick and competition pistol dealers in the Nation.

Mrs. Clark told me a little story about her day years back when he was guiding an Elk hunt in Colorado. They had a nice bull elk spotted at 250yards on the side of a hill. The "sport" fired off a round with his 300 Weatherby Mag only to take the front leg off the Bull at the knee. He then proceeded to fire the rest of his magazine of 4 rounds to no avail and was out of ammo. Her father at that point, not wanting to lose the elk to predators, unholstered his 45 revolver and fired 3 times killing the elk AT THE SAME 250 yards!

All skeptics can call or come by Clark's Guns, Hiway 80 East, Bossier City, La. 318-742-7230. Remember: Bring lots of money so a LADY can show you how to shoot!
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was he shooting from a bench?
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   nofences
No one mentioned anything about a bench. You said he was hunting and shot the deer with his 9 not from a bench. Face it this was not the sportsman thing to do. Hopefully he will have a rifile next time. Good luck this year.
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   7MAG_JAKE
You know what we have beat this post to death now and I have not seen any body say anything, but maybe just maybe the feller got lucky and dropped the deer with his 9mm.Freak stuff happens all the time, the guy was just having a good day. it was a lucky shot is all we should say instead of getting in this big debate about shooting deer with a 9mm is inhumane or whatever is was a spur of the moment deal so you know what is was lucky and he will be tickled to death for a while! Good luck to him
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   Cowgirl
Just got off the phone with Capt. John. He is coming in today from the hunt in Arkansas to attend a wedding here in Shreveport and he is very anxious to read what all has been going on here and to give you all his actual factual report as to what happened Sunday at the deer camp. Hope you can all have your questions ready for him. He will surely post on our computer here in Springridge and I guess he will have to post under my name unless he can figure out how to post under his.. Get ready 'cause we surely are!!
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Does anyone else get the sense that cowgirl and captain jon are the same person. If he can't figure out how to post under his own name, I'm surprised he can find his way home from the marsh. This whole story is BS. So is the story about someone killing an elk at 250 yards with a pistol. If you're going to make up a story, at least make it slightly believeable.
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   BangFlop
You know I was thinking the same thing. I called BS on the mess 2 days ago.

How about some pictures of the wedding?
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   LONG GUN
HIGHWAY COMPANION WHICH ONE ARE YOU?
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It's spelled Beavis
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Anybody besides me notice Long Gun's cap lock is broken. HUH DI JA.
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   LONG GUN
HEE.HEEE NAW I JUST LIKE DOIN IT MY WAY
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