Are Surface Drives the reason for no Ducks?

Since it seems like every post lately is blaming surface drives for the lack of ducks, I feel it necessary to provide some insight.

Are Surface Drives the reason for no Ducks?

No. You can take a look at every LAA WMA, Federal Refuges, and WMAs with surface drive restrictions, private leases and clubs with SD restrictions and you will see that these areas suffer from the same lack of ducks as those areas that do allow surface drives.

Unless you can prove to me that these areas with surface drive restrictions hold more ducks, then you're just talking out of your @-$$

Ever hear of this, 'Guns don't kill people..people kill people'...

Well... SD's don't drive away ducks, the people who ABUSE the use if them and do IRRESPONSIBLE things with them certainly adds to the problem, especially when they trespass all over hard working and PAYING people's private land and leases.... If you're not one of those people, then you definitely should agree.

Other than this simple point, the reason for the lack of birds in WELL DOCUMENTED in too many other posts on this site to possibly count....

BTW--I own mud boats and an airboat... BUT I do always stick to my personal hunting area (not scouting around off of my lease) and I do what I can to MINIMZE my time 'scouting' on my own lease to give the birds time to settle in and hopefully stay a little longer...I have seen signs of this helping keep more birds on the lease.... Just saying.

This is gonna get a lot of fire in return but oh well. The amount of people who own, operate improperly, and abuse the use of the mud motor boats are definitely a part of the decline of the ducks in the area. We use to have thousands and thousands of birds around our camp area. It was a amazing sight to watch all the ducks around the area. Now every morning starting at as early as 230 am the entourage of mud boats in and out of the areas for several square miles doesn't hold a bird. These areas cannot take that kind of pressure. If you have 50 boats constantly running daily the results are what we see day in and out. No ducks!!!! There are areas that we have hunted for 20 years or better. Pull up look at 3,4,5000 ducks. Put the pirogues out, paddle in kill them ad leave. We dont even look there anymore. Where there once was 3,000 plus birds is now 10 boat blinds and traffic like crazy. We hunt on a refuge. Pirogue only and for the most part are successful. Why??? No mud boats. For several years we watched these boats run all over off the refuge and the hunting got terrible. Go to pirogue only areas and plenty ducks and kill em. All true waterfowlers who say they are not a huge part of the problem are just kidding themselves. Again not he only problem but this is a major problem and will only get worse before better. This comment is going to get a lot of fire back on it but this is the truth. Pass o Loutre wma gets studied and we get checked by the conservationist that does the duck counts daily. The areas that are non motor areas have way more success than of those areas. I guess theres just better grass is those areas to kill more ducks.

Airboats are the absolute worst. If you wanna scare the crap outta birds and make them never come back, just use one of those.

Feel compelled to chime in on the use of surface drives and abuse of them.Just take a look at recent bag surveys done at PAC limited access areas and if memory serves me correctly,the success ratio on LAA areas was way above the rest of that particular WMA.I for one do not blame surface drives for the lack of ducks in any area,just the abuse by folks who drive all over areas where ducks used to be able to rest and now there are boats driving into areas that used to be somewhat of a 'refuge' for ducks.Where I hunt,Big Branch,there are no air-cooled watercraft allowed and no permanent blinds allowed and those two factors increases my success quite a bit,not a doubt in my mind and I talked to one of the Federal Agents a few years ago,Mike Downey,Jr,and he commented that the State wanted to allow mudboats on Big Branch and in his estimation,that of mine as well,that would have ruined it for hunting success on Big Branch.The other nice thing about Federal WR's is hunting only allowed on Wed/Th/Sat,Sun and has to cease by noon,allowing the ducks a non-pressured period and that also increases my success.Certainly surface drives have their place,fortunately for me I find them unnecessary and not allowed where I CHOOSE to hunt,and damn glad they are not allowed.I hunt the ole-school way and absolutely love it and do not mind if I shoot one duck,zero ducks,or a solo limit-typically hunt solo and love that as well for tons of reasons,chiefly being much easier to conceal one hunter vs two or three and where I hunt,not exactly over-run with ducks and Bayoubob and I can cover some decent hunting ground de way we hunt.For those who choose surface drives,have at it,just give the ducks a break and don't drive all over WMA's scattering and basically scaring ducks and hoping they return and quite often after enough harassment,they seek shelter elsewhere!!!Just my humble opinion!!Take it for what it is worth,maybe .02!!!

Mandevillian

In the post above. I for one do not blame surface drives for lack of ducks in any area. Shortly after talked to a very well known game warden Mike Downey. Very passionate agent. The wildlife agent and post man above said if surface drives were allowed on big branch it would have ruined the hunting success in that area ?????? I wonder why the allowance of surface drives would have only ruined that area??? Hats off to the innovation and creators of these rigs. They are absolutely amazing machines. There are not many boat combinations that you can hunt, bass fish, interior marsh fish, sight cast reds, bow fish, and run the living hell out of waterfowl out of areas. Has anyone ever heard a 37 hp gator tail or a 45 mag mud buddy with a stage 2 or 3 upgrade?? Sounds like a pro mod going down a race track. To all seasoned waterfowlers we have seen the end of what use to be hunting paradise. And again not the only problem.

I own a surface drive and for many years before that we ran long tails. I never run around on other peoples land, I don't 'scout' other peoples land. I use my boat to get in and out of our property that's all. I also use it to frog, bow fish, and chase fish with a rod and reel.

I do believe that they have put pressure where pressure never used to be. Lets face it I ran long tails for years but since they were slow and never handled a load like my surface drive it was used only to hunt, frog and fish stumps. I can use a SD for more that.

Do I think the reason we don't have ducks is a SD issue, NO. Are SD's the reason specs don't migrate here the way they did 10 years ago? I think not. Are SD's the reason my farmer in NE Ar doesn't have ducks there the way he did in 10 years ago? I doubt it. Are lack of SD's the reason Tn and MO are killing more ducks and geese than they did 10 years ago or is it because of no till farming and flooded grain fields?
Snow geese stopped coming to areas in Hopedale in great numbers over 30 years ago, way before the first SD was even conceived. People need to face the facts the flyway has changed, it has done it in the past and will keep changing.

Sorry but although I do believe SD's have added a tremendous amount of pressure to our resources I don't believe they are the reason we don't have ducks. We don't have ducks because they simply aren't coming here the way they used to.

My issue is not so much with the rigs but with the idiots that misuse them. Sat for the opener my buddies and I were sitting In our blind on our favorite wma and from the moment we got there to the moment we finished off our 5 man limit there were both mud rigs and outboards running all around us. Even had the pleasure of watching a fella in a gatortail rig proceed to run about 40 yards from our blind in plain daylight and get stuck on the sand bar just passed us. Must of sat there for about 20 minutes digging trying to get off. So I say it isn’t the tool, it’s the user.

We hunt a lease in south louisisna and use surface drives to get in and out.....there's NO ducks!!!!!!!! Not because of surface drives there's no feed to keep'm. They use surface drives, airboats and outboards in Catahoula and there's ducks. Why? Because there's feed

Any pressure will make ducks seek other areas so they will not be disturbed. This pressure can be surface drives, airboats, bass boats, bay boats, redfish sight fishing boats, crab fisherman, hunting pressure, excessive shooting...... Yes, surface drives are misused by some “scouting”, “joy riding”, “Mud riding” boaters. All of this can cause ducks to leave an area and seek new quiet areas. They will come back to feed in busy areas at night when it’s quiet. But migration patterns are changing, and it’s nit because of surface drives. Ducks, geese, and other migrating birds are changing their patterns. What about Robins? I remember when fields and yards were covered with Robins all winter long. Now we may see a push of Robins late in the winter if extremely cold up north and only for a short time before they leave. I have not seen a Robin yet this year. Is that because of surface drives?

I think that they are great tools when used properly. Unfortunately on public lands, they allow a level of pressure on the birds that was never seen in the past. The birds will only get jumped up so many times before they will find another place to rest. The same goes for any hunting pressure. Why do you think that sanctuary areas that are off limits to hunting and any access hold so many birds. Yes, the ducks need feed, but this state has plenty of feed in areas that don't get the kind of pressure that WMAs get.

Personally, I'm not convinced that all surface drivers (especially the younger ones) are 100% for the hunt. It's a good reason to run around in your hopped up machine and post to facebook. No offense to the innocent. Let's be honest, less is better when it comes to disturbance of habitat.......period.

It takes 0 skill to opperate a popup blind surface drive and try to kill ducks. I owned surface drives and have got rid of them to go back to outboard. Do a study and give eveyone that hunts in delacroix or hopedale a outboard instead of a surface drive and see how many stuck boats there are in a morning. So add no skill of running the marsh and the sound of a harley davidson all morning and you tell me what happens to the ducks...

Once again to anyone who erroneously thought I said Surface Drives are the reason we do not have ducks the answer is the over-use and folks that take them to areas where ducks used to rest is causing them to be harassed like they never used to be and that same principle holds true with the way I hunt,using a pirogue to access areas that NO ONE typically gets to because they are a royal pain to get to,dragging over levees,trudging through slop,paddling for over an hour,etc!When I mentioned Mike Downey's comments about the ruination of Big Branch,he was referring to areas that he and I and very few folks either know about or just are not that interested in getting to,my gain and another's loss,not a big deal but do not take his comments nor mine outta context!!!I love my mid-week hunts for tons of reasons and love Big Branch for tons of reasons,chief being no air-cooled watercraft allowed,no motorized pirogues,etc,no permanent blinds and that forces folks to be creative,work hard,hunt smart and efficiently and enjoy some FREE resources.There are some ducks where I hunt and Bayoubob and I do our level best to get as far away from crowds as possible and allowing Surface Drives in Big Branch would allow those folks that own them to drive all over the Refuge,possibly wide-open,scattering ducks like they have never been scattered and after getting constant pressure,the hunt experience,at least for me,would be ruined and surely that is the sentiment of Mike Downey as well,simply put!!Proud Pop said it best and anyone who thinks I hate Surface Drives,the answer is no,I have zero use for them,love portaging my pirogues via well-constructed pirogue rack,do not mind paddling well over an hour(excellent aerobic exercise and at 59 not many folks can keep up with me with a fine yak paddle,trust me)and I stealthily paddle to non-pressured areas just about every time I hunt in the NShore Marsh and have plenty of hunt pics to show the quality of ducks we routinely harvest,just not many solo limits or even close to solo limits and dat suits me fine,thank you!!!

Mandevillian

Gotta add PS,the areas I hunt are over-loaded with duck feed,we have just not had the migration of greys like we usually do and I never insinuated that Surface Drives caused the migration delay/shift to the west/no migration/etc-we just do not have the migration patterns like we do and add pressure to an already-thin population of virtually non-existent ducks and anyone can clearly see de situation.Guess what-there are folks pounding ducks in Big Branch,they just do not post about it and guess I might have to shut down my posts before I start getting followed but certainly not by Surface Drives!!!

Mandevillian

To the trespassers comment- If surface drives are restricted will trespassers stop trespassing? No, trespassers have been around way longer than surface drives. In my experience, we’ve run off more trespassers in outboards than surface drives.

If every Tom, dick and Harry that runs around in a surface drive boat trades it in for an outboard and pirouge, do you really think the ducks will return? Or would have never left?

So imagine this; (I’ll just use random number) that they’re are 5,000 surface drive rigs running the marshes of Louisiana. Then it’s established that surface drives are banned and every SD rig is replaced with an outboard rig. Do you really think that’s going to make a difference as for as pressure?
We run outboards and surface drives and I can vouch that on our route, our outboards jump just as many ducks as our surface drives rigs.

Hell we jump way more ducks as we’re fishing for redfish and trout. Figure this; we run 3-6x’s the miles while fishing than we do hunting & there are many more fisherman today than years past.

It's pretty simple to find. Ask any biologist or look at any duck count with the information. Every season, on every WMA with LAA, LAA kills more ducks than anyone else on that WMA. Plain and simple. To put it in a perspective maybe the naysayers will understand; do you hunt right next to main canals with boat traffic? I'm sure you go further in the marsh or in the timber since you understand less pressure equates to more ducks. Every motor running scares the ducks off, especially the louder ones.

Look at a certain marsh that just outlawed SD recently in the southeast portion of the state. It is now one of the top duck hunting WMA's in the state now. It wasn't like that a few years ago.

If you're hunting public land, park your boat in the main canals, and get your boots wet and take a little walk or row. It's not that hard to do.

Amen,brother😜

Mandevillian

This debate comes up every year. Do surface drives have some sort of impact on ducks obviously some, but how much? Every year people come up with 10 reasons why they aren't seeing ducks. How about you use common sense on what you are actually seeing and say that we just aren't getting the duck numbers down here anymore period. Its no new secret the flyway started shifting years ago and the majority of the birds that do make it this far down go to west LA and Texas. The rest go to our northern neighbors. Counts may say otherwise but go see for yourself. Take a ride to Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas from Nov-January and see how many gadwall are there. Two years ago we were hunting on Arkansas toward the end of January (grays should be long gone up there by then) and we killed 72 in 27 minutes! They said they had thousands of gadwall opening morning and no matter how much they pounded on them they stayed covered up the entire season. This season they have limited every hunt and 80% are GADWALL!

After my hunt this past Saturday I had a long boat ride back in. Before 5 years ago no matter what weather we had prior or how much grass were in the ponds I would have raised at minimum hundreds on the way in opener of second split. Instead, we raised about 4 flocks. Fact is 'they ain't there no more!!' Enjoy the few we do have.

I would say that the SD motors are not the reason we have very few ducks this year. It is way more complicated that that. I believe the migration patterns have been and are, ever evolving (changing). Weather has a lot to do with; some content farming practices also contribute. IDK; but I will say that the use and MISUSE of SD rigs directly contributes to the disbursement of however many ducks do migrate to SE LA. I hunt Delacroix and it seems that 4 out of 5 duck hunters use SD rigs. The very technology of the SD rig affords the operator to abuse its capabilities. Many abuse the technology. There is no doubt in my mind that the SD rigs have had a strong effect on my property and it's ability to attract and hold birds. We usually have plenty ducks after fronts, but 2 days later they have mostly bugged out. I have a lot of poaching/trespassing every season and I can only imagine that a lot of it is going down when I am not around (i.e. evenings and weekdays). I can only account for the brazen ones that show up 30 minutes after daylight to see if you are hunting that day.

What I have noticed also is that ducks don't act like they used to, maybe 10-15 years ago. It is a rare event to get Greys to work into a decoy spread anymore. They all tend to circle out of range and eventually land out in the open water 100+ yards away.

Now I can attest to great hunts with picture perfect decoying ducks on a certain NWR. Coincidentally, they do not allow air cooled propulsion; limit hunting to W, Th, Sat, Sun till 12 noon only.

I think we would certainly have more successful hunting (if we actually have birds around) if SD rigs were not allowed. The guys arguing that outboards run all over just as much as SD rigs have obviously never tried to traverse Delacroix post K. Maybe the southern end (4 horse, Lake John, etc.); but the interior marsh is basically inaccessible without some form of mud drive (Lery, Carnarvan, etc. ).

That was one of my biggest points on this topic. look at the results. A guy at our camp hunted Friday and Saturday and hunted hard. Killed very few ducks. Both days where mud boat grand central station begins. Saturday evening he was bummed out about no ducks. I told him get in your pirogue and go where there are no mud motors allowed. They came back with 4 man limit. Guess he got lucky that day. Too many boats in and out all day long.

Yes
i owned one of the first surface drives in Lafitte circa 2001.I had to have it shipped to me because I wanted the one from Utah.
At that time ducks were abundant in Lafitte and I have photos to show it.
I watched the effect surface drives had on ducks .We could hunt our lease in the afternoon and always get our limit because as the guide drove don the main bayou to pick us up.He always flushed enough ducks to finish off your limit.If you had a limit the ducks were flying fast and leaving our lease.They were scared by the surface drive.
The sound carries about 2 miles and terrifies ducks probably because the air-cooled engines have a sound similar to a group of shotguns firing especially when idling.
They also allow poaching all day daily.
It is simple enough to study.
Choose a large area and close half to surface drives.Closely monitor the area.Everyday will be necessary all day.
The migratory birds will increase in the no surface drive area.
Big deal.
No Wildlife and Fisheries Commission with any sense will act to outlaw surface drives.So even with proof we are still stuck with surface drives.
And so duck hunting in Louisiana has gone from pintails and mallards to teal and grey ducks with the grey ducks vanishing very rapidly.
That's sad.

Duckbuster2013,Tried to reply to ya post via I-Phone while Wifey driving us to nice celebratory Christmas Party put on by a gem of a guy who assists Independent Medicare Brokers like Wifey and I and guess de doggone phone transmission not good so here goes what I was gonna chime in with-probably not a thing luck had to do with the 4-man limit you mentioned in your post but what most likely occurred is that fella found some non-pressured ducks and he did what he could do in the way of concealment and not spooking them up while he got set up and came away with 24 ducks,quite an accomplishment.Truth be told,there are some folks legally hunting Big Branch Refuge with mudboats and surface drives and the comical situation is that he and his buddies help those of us hunting remote areas as when he cranks up dat noisy motor,greys come a-flying like dey was shot outta a cannon,trouble is dey are spooked like all get out and they typically flock to guess where-treelines with nary a hunter no where near in sight.Maybe I should get in cahoots with dat fella and stage myself up in dem remote ponds and wait for him to crank up dat noisy-azz motor!!!I prefer to hunt the way I do,work hard for what I get,refrain from targeting scaup and mergansers and spoonies and take what de Good Lord sends me,count my blessings and keep-a -hunting de way I do!!!Going tomorrow,not too optimistic bout my chances but good news is I know some non-pressured ponds and dat is where I intend to hide my Chapman and hope for de best!!!

Mandevillian

My opinion is surface drives have very little to do with our lack of ducks in our state. Before surface drives there were long tail motors for many years with guys going all over the place with those. I just don't believe it is the factor many think it is?

An analogy would be man made global warming. Yes humans do have some impact but is so minimal in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really register as a factor.

As the old saying goes 'Opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has one'.

'Its all about the Ducks'

Louisiana is not the only states that has surface drives. Have you check Ar-Kansas public land they run them in there and still have ducks. Do surface drives have an effect on ducks sure it does but so does migration pattern changes and habitat changes

Alright knockemdown, if you replaced every surface drive from canervon, delacroix and hopedale with a outboard after morning number 1 you would have 10% of the boats still running bc 1, half will be blown up bc they can't run the marsh and just can not run a straight line anymore 2, the rest will give up bc the they can not just pull in to the lease, they actually have to paddle and work and 3, bc they going to say they you can't kill ducks if you don't own a surface drive. Migration change is a obvious factor and is weather but when birds do come down they don't stay and it isn't bc there's no feed, more feed this year than years past.

Man some people just will never get it but for those who might.

1. Why isn't Big Branch (which doesn't allow SD's) on fire every season? I know guys who know every inch of it and if they kill 6 they do back flips. But with a SD ban it 'should be full of ducks'

2. When they put a SD ban on Biloxi WMA why isn't it ( as a whole) on fire???? And don't say there some are people doing really well out there because there have been some people who do well out there every season long before the ban I was one of them but that was back when we had numbers ducks down here.

3. And the example that slams this debate shut. Seven years ago I was lucky enough to get invited to join a small private lease in my neighboring parish. The marsh is pristine, full of many types of duck feed. In the past to be opening weekend was mainly teal taken but by Thanksgiving the lease was loaded with big ducks most being gadwall. Four years ago in an effort to 'take pressure off the ducks' and most being gadwall, put some strict rules into place. We can only hunt the lease on weekends and have to be out by 1pm. Every year since then we have gained more wigeon grass in the ponds (prime gray duck food) and yet something has happened. Despite these ducks having little pressure to speak of on them we continued to shoot less grays. Last season not many were shot and this year marked the first in its 30 year+ history that not a single gadwall was killed the first two weeks and only 2 have been shot the entire season. So that must mean someone is running around at night in a surface drive scaring the birds away right???????? C'mon... wake and smell the coffee.

but, but, but it's gotta be the surface drives....lol

For inquiring minds there are some areas of Big Branch that while not on fire(whose spot is on fire,folks)do give up quite a few quality ducks and the only point I have EVER tried to make regarding Surface Drives in Big Branch is that when you have areas that hold ducks on fairly consistent basis that are a chore and a half to get to any only diehards willing to bust it to get to em and then ya allow Surface Drives,now ya got NO place for ducks to rest and forget it an already thin population of ducks gonna vanish pronto. Never did I infer that Surface Drives were the reason for the scarcity of ducks😜

Mandevillian

While I have and use a surface drive I also walked a mile and half in waders to get to a duckhole in Illinois........No ducks that day

Just got off phone with Gerard,a die-hard that often hunts Big Branch with me,and he and I hunted the exact spot where a day before I killed 4 greys,a DosGris,and mottled duck drake and I saw hundreds of greys the day before-we wanted to refrain from shooting teal for big ducks and guess what,we shot the only grey we saw and 8 teal,not sure where the masses of greys went and today I blanked and Bayoubob shot a hen spoonie and I saw exactly two flocks of greys,both looking like they were newly-arrived and I did see true trophy,sprig pintail but he was a good 70 yards up and headed for the Lake.If we do not get any decent migrations of greys pronto,gonna be tough sledding,even for die-hards like me and even for those lucky folks that know every nook and cranny of Big Branch.The volleys of shots I consistently hear on about every hunt I make out there most likely folks shooting plenty of scaup,in my humble estimation.We spooked a bunch of scaup on our way back and that was all we saw,except for a smattering of greys and the fine sprig!!Gonna bust my butt de balance of de season and guess we all in for some slim pickings and at least I do not have lease fees,etc!!!Thank God for small favors!!

Mandevillian

No, SD's are not the reason we don't have ducks here anymore. If you think it is... Please explain to me why are there ducks in a marsh pond between hwy 182 and hwy 90 in Raceland (only 75-100 yds away from an exit). That hundreds of cars, trucks, HARLEY'S, and 18 wheelers using Jake brakes!! Teal, wood ducks, mottled ducks, and I eve seen a pair of Mallards there. Why do you think they stay in that pond with all the noise?? I'll tell you! They left Lake Fields and Lake Long from the hunting pressure.

Looking at the recent LDWF aerial survey, the ducks are here. In my opinion, I think they are sitting on the refuges, such as Marsh Island and Rockefeller Refuge, where we can't hunt! Why have those places under state management and state funding when we can't hunt there!??

Also, you have to look up north too. So many corn and grain fields! No need to migrate with all the food they need is there.

Knockemdown has laid out an incredibly intriguing argument. I don't see how anyone could stand to disagree with his methods of deduction.
LSUHunter knows the worst 3 duck hunters in Big Branch, and they aren't killing birds.
Toby65 knows one spot where cars and motorcycles drive by.

I'd say that about settles it. Surface drives are not problematic. The owner of Biloxi Marsh got it wrong. Satellite imagery of areas where surface drives are abundant are conjectural at best. Case closed.

Knockemdown has laid out an incredibly intriguing argument. I don't see how anyone could stand to disagree with his methods of deduction.
LSUHunter knows the worst 3 duck hunters in Big Branch, and they aren't killing birds.
Toby65 knows one spot where cars and motorcycles drive by.

I'd say that about settles it. Surface drives are not problematic. The owner of Biloxi Marsh got it wrong. Satellite imagery of areas where surface drives are abundant are conjectural at best. Case closed.

So anyone that doesn't totally agree that surface drives are the only issue on why there are less ducks is wrong...
and the earth is round

Alspanky, no.

Next time I get in my deer stand I'm going to play my music as loud as my phone will go. Maybe even bring an external amped up speaker. That shouldn't make much of a difference in my hunt results....Standby for a report.....

Hey PushPaddle...

Yeah, I get some humor out of some of these 'rediculuos deductive reasonings' I'm reading in some of these posts as well... I tell you man, I can't help but get some humor (along with some sadness and frustration) out of the things many people throw out there in these rediculous posts... Where is the logic and common sense. I honestly believe many know it to be true, but sense they are sooooo happy with their new toy (SD) that many of them save money for a long time to buy, they could NEVER admit to their contribution to an ongoing problem. I know one thing, since SD's hit just about every other driveway/garage in town, not to mention every canal, trenasse & pond in the marsh, the tresspassing & 'scouting' has gone THROUGH THE ROOF!!!!

Yes, there were always trespassers, as someone else has pointed out, but there is a HUGE difference between tresspassers making a quiet stealth hunt by priogue and guys running SD's all over leases when your'e not around (which is when your lease should be getting the 'rest' it needs to hold birds). The joy riding idiots (during duck season) have skyrocketed as well, and they are DEFINITELY affecting the ability of areas to keep numbers of birds on the water. It is UNMISTAKEBLE if you've spend the time looking and analyzing whats happening.

I see it happening on the lease sections adjacent to mine!!!! They run the damn SD's all day long!!! No hunters all weekdays, have birds when you get there Friday afternoon, get to the camp, set out dekes with SDs and start the SD 'scouting' parade all afternoon and the birds move out !!!!! Hunt next day and all those birds are GONE!!!

If we all agree (and we all do) that there are much less birds holding in many areas that USED TO BE well-nknown as GREAT DUCK AREAS for many reasons other than SD's, regardless of the reasons that they stopped stacking up in these areas... It is COMMON SENSE for us die-hards who have far too much time in the marsh to be refuted, that to much running of surface drives, mud boats, airboats, WHATEVER, ANY mechanical DISTURBANCE to these now-scarce birds is detrimental to whether or not they STAY content in these areas or not. Everyone LOVES the fact that they can reach the farthest corners of the marsh just by spending their hard-earned money on a SD, BUT.......

True example, I can have my camp generator (loud) with screaming exhaust all day long and I'll have grey ducks stacking up pothles right next to my camp (extrememly close); HOWEVER, the SECOND that a mud boat (SD, or other) is started up or passes in the canal in the distance, these ducks are GONE!!! These ducks are not stupid...they know the difference and they know when a mud boat is approaching..... Same ducks in same potholes stay put and I can kill them easilu if I leave the mudboat off & simply get in my priogue and paddle in undetected.... Go figure. Not rocket science... SD's are not the only problem, but the explosion in popularity, and the trmendous use & misuse of them is CERTANLY a significant contributing factor to birds not staying put. There are some areas still holding birds, BUT SD;s and other mud boats definitely run the birds out.....NO DOUBT!

Peace out.....
Hitman

All I got to add to this increasingly growing thread is that I hunted Big Branch Marsh today with Bayoubob and I saw an incredible amount of teal,hard to tell from a distance if they were blue wings or green wings but I did shoot a blue wing hen and had another land just out of range just about the time I busted an in-suspecting Hollywood(spoonbill)hen and Bayoubob spotted some pintails,all drakes,but he did not get a decent chance at them and we cut our hunt way shorter than normal as I had a buddy taking me trolling the Trestles(caught ten nice specks)and when Bayoubob and I were leaving our hunt area,a fellow with a Go-Devil,mudboat,whathaveyou,cranked up his mudboat(extremely loud)and all he spooked up was maybe 4 mallards and zero scaup and my contention is that our area has some ducks,mostly teal and some scaup(tons of them for those wanting them)and when me and my fishing buddy motored from Mandeville Harbor to the Trestles,we spooked up hundreds of ducks in the Lake,no doubt,but mostly scaup.We may have seen one or two pairs of canvasbacks and zero greys so take it for what it is worth,not much in the way of greys,at least in the Big Branch Marsh and even our mud boat buddy spooked up very few ducks.Pressuring and already-pressured resource aint a good thing and dats why I love Big Branch as only folks with legitimate usage of mudboats(very limited)can use them and they are supposed to only access their Private Land and from what I hear,the Prieto Family might be parting ways with their lease,meaning far fewer legitimate users of surface drives,mudboats,etc we just have very few good ducks!!!

Mandevillian

As I stated before, the misuse of mud boats/surface drives does chase ducks from areas hold them. But it is not the main reason for the lack of ducks as some think it is. I have seen years before this one with more JOY RIDERS than I am experiencing now on our property. Maybe I can appreciate what some of you experience with heavier traffic in you areas. The fishing in Delacroix right now is off the charts and there are a ridiculous amount of boat runnning the marsh. None of that traffic helps. Good luck to all the rest of the season.

Hit Man hit it on the head.....Common sense folks...

I think I much preferred this thread when we were all using straw man fallacies to support our own biased theories.

One area I like to harp on during these discussions is pas a loutre wma. Maybe even more specifically the southeast pass/ jackass bayou area. For the past 8 or so years there has been a large houseboat that parks there with 10-15 SD’s, and even a helicopter. This may be offensive, but you really used to never see really morbidly obese people down there duck hunting. It was just too difficult and dangerous. Not the case anymore as any fat cat w a checkbook can get invited on to that houseboat and take a ride in a SD into jackass bay and shoot a few birds. The number of birds other than divers ( I’m actually convinced that divers are less effected by the SD’s due perhaps to lesser survival instincts) has IMO reduced greatly in Pas A Loutre concurrently with the appearance of said houseboat. Compare Pas A Loutre’s bird count with that of Delta NWR just a few miles up the river and you can likely conclude that something is markedly different between the two, even given the terrain and food similarities, and of course the proximity. I think that’s a fair and honest comparison, not cherry picking totally different areas and comparing them. And to be clear, this is not an argument that ‘out of shape’ people are screwing up duck hunting,,,that’s a microcosm for the fact that SD’s have enticed people who would otherwise not be inclined to duck hunt,,,, to duck hunt. And maybe these people are loud and clumsy as sh** while they do it.

I wish there was this much passion for coastal erosion. The question has many answers but the degradation of our habitat is a much larger % of the answer than we realize.

Guess what folks,there are some ducks to be had in the NShore Marsh but ya gotta be committed to bustin ya butt to get after em and Surface Drives does ya no good as not allowed and did chat with a fellow passionate duck hunter,has a fine Gator Trax,and he has private land in the NShore Marsh so he legitimately can use his Gator Trax to chase ducks but guess what-he hunted de Lake and guess what he shot-very nice hen canvasback,bufflehead,Dos Gris so for those whining about not having ducks on their private leases,get you on down to Lady P shoreline,perfectly legal every day of the week and shoot some canvasbacks!!Not kidding one iota!!Bayoubob and I guess got lucky today in NShore Marsh(he specifically)as between us we managed 5 ducks and his take was 4!!!He managed trophy drake grey,extremely impressive drake woodie,nice drake scaup and hen blue wing and I managed to shoot drake Dos Gris so close to my blind that I basically amputated a wing and destroyed his back!!Saw more than enough mallards to keep me busting my booty to chase some trophies and shoulda had extremely nice pair today and had huge mottled ducks,quite possibly true black ducks land in pond about 150 yards away.For mottled ducks and black ducks to land that close ,ya know how well hidden I was plus I was in an area noted for black ducks,mottled ducks,greenheads and my trophy black duck from a few seasons ago reminds me of how effective my palmetto blinds are!!!Guess Bayoubob and I some lucky hunters!!!Luck has not a thing to do with it,scouting,scouting,camo,camo,mobility,etc has absolutely everything to do with our success,fellow diehard and passionate duck hunters!!!

Mandevillian,enjoying quality over quantity any season!!!

All I can say is that I hope when ever the time comes that I can’t duck hunt on my own, wether I become injured or disabled, just to old, if I become too fat, or just too “anything” to do it the way I’ve always done it, I pray that someone will be able to take me to do what I love. Even if it is using a surface drive!! My last coment on this thread will be to repeat that I agree the constant traffic by surface drive boats will run ducks off and may be the reason hunting has slowed up in your area, it is not the reason Louisiana as a whole is seeing less ducks. Good luck to all the rest of the season.

The first time birds are pushed they fly a little ways, the second time a little further, the third time they fly for 30 minutes.

Before go devils and surface drives, few people 'paddled' around looking at ducks and 'scouting' also back then significantly fewer people were fishing the interior marshes - and NOBODY was bowfishing.. Whether it's day or night the far reaches of most marshes are seeing incredible human mechanized traffic - each kind causes them to move.

couple that with degraded habitat and there is your answer.

Dat has been my exact point de entire thread-pressure an already-pressured resource and keep pressure on em and see what happens.I for one do not scout using the outboard but prefer de ole-fashioned and ridiculously effective way of paddling and NOT trying to not only spook birds but also educate them.I love my mid-week hunts for tons of reasons,chiefly a lot less pressure on an already extremely thin population of ducks that does not seem to be getting re-populated by migraters,and the ability to work ducks into effective range.Where I hunt,there are not that many of our bread-n-butter greys,tons of less-desirable scaup,and a handful of wood ducks and teal coupled with some mallards that have NOT been harassed!!Going tomorrow and TH and just checked out WUnderground and looks like about perfect wind conditions for where I intend to hunt tomorrow and Th.Hope Santa brought all duck diehards some new toys and is bringing some fresh birds to replenish our thin(at least where I am currently hunting)duck populations!!!

Mandevillian

PocketLab there is plenty passion for coastal erosion in Southeast La. They have ruined the entire Big Branch NWR with their bomb sites (restoration zones) from goose point all the way to bayou bonfouca. Areas that consistently held thousands of grey ducks have now been turned into humongous pig pens. One less place for wintering waterfowl to hangout down here, not to mention all the other aquatic and bird life that Big Branch hosted.

Interestingly enough,recently received some high-tech drone pics of areas of the NShore Marsh obviously not affected in the least by the extensive 'marsh restoration' you referred to.Lucky for me,I do know of some fine ponds where mallards seem to flock and while I do not own a drone for high-tech and extremely timely scouting,I know enough about the NShore Marsh to plan some hopefully decent hunts,though not for our bread-n-butter greys but for much bigger ducks,mallards,and I hope to cash in on some of this info.For those drone owners out there,not a bad way to scout and I have heard of a few very resourceful hunters cashing in on high-tech scouting,food for thought!!!

Mandevillian

Mr. Mandevillian, the only areas not thus far affected by restoration bombsites in B.B. are the ponds north of Goose point, and the ponds between lake road and the Boy Scout road paddle in (although there is one very large bomb site there by the lake that caused some very nice ponds to fill in. Everything east of the pipeline is essentially destroyed unless you’re a wild hog. The few remaining ponds over there will be silted in probably by next year. The old fritchie marsh is still there but I believe there are plans to turn that into a pig pen as well. And if yoi are wondering why your bread and butter grey ducks aren’t around this year, it’s because they have 75% less open water to stage in, so they are flying east and south toward Biloxi Marsh and Sauvage. But hey atleast there is going to be a great feral pig habitat.

Not gonna argue with ya my friend but there are plenty ponds well worth hunting,ya gotta seek em out and plenty with not an iota affected by 'marsh restoration' and the last thing me and Bayoubob need is tons of competition,nuff said!!!This has been a year of plenty of frustration,indeed,but why argue with the quality of ducks we have shot,including two trophy-worthy wood duck drakes,fine drake mottled duck,equally fine drake redhead and a handful of teal and smattering of greys-they definitely were in the areas I hunt and hoping some fronts shove a few down.Sorry ya aint on de 'X' in NShore Marsh but there enough decent ducks out there for my liking whether or not ya find em is kinda up to you!!Hope the balance of ya season turns out better!I for one will never quit til de last day!!!

Mandevillian

P.S. Do have fine greenhead this season!!

It looks like the Big Branch / North shore has been well advertised to over 12,000 views. That place will probably be so overcrowded now next season.......good job! I know nothing about the place, yet this thread makes me want to explore it.

duckhunter_89,Seriuosly doubt any of the areas I hunt will have much in the way of competition as I have been basically busting it about the past 15 years or so and rarely even run into a hunter anywhere near me-takes quite a boat ride plus another strenuous paddle,not for the less-than-diehards and I say have at it,do the work and reap the rewards just be considerate and do not set up on top of another hunter and the way Bayoubob and I hunt,I call loudly when I see flocks kinda high up and dat alerts him and if ducks are working his spread(I know exactly where he is)I will let off the calling and watch as often he gets some fine shots at greys soaring into his decoy spread.Just got off phone with client who worked on one of the dredges that was doing 'marsh restoration' and I gave him some intel on where to give de NShore Marsh a go tomorrow and possibly Th!!Good luck to ya wherever ya choose to hunt,got me fine spot picked out and know I have over 35 minute paddle to get to it,awesome workout and prevents much in de way of competition!!!

Mandevillian

89 I could show you plenty of nice bombsites in B.B. that could be great for like, maybe a World War 1 trench warfare/ No Man’s Land re-enactment if that’s your thing.

These didn't mind

I just got back from Bayou Meto in Arkansas. For the uninitiated, it is the mecca of real flooded timber duck hunting. This PUBLIC place has thousands of hunters, holds thousands of mallards and huge numbers of other ducks, geese, and people consistently kill ducks there. Why?

The state of AR manages it with a microscope.
You can only bring in 15 shells, must be out of the water by like 1pm, the limits there are smaller than elsewhere, there are many many no-hunting areas for birds to rest, there are 'no guiding' regulations, tight horsepower limitations, the habitat management is supreme, and the place is so vast it can be daunting.

It is my opinion that the state of LA could take a cue from AR to manage their public land better, but the real responsibility lies with the hunters:
Hunters have to take limits, regs seriously and respect them as the path to having better hunting overall and in the long run, be patient and not sky blast ducks, not chase them around, etc.

As a hunter, you cant change the laws, rules, etc. They are implemented with the overall quality of the resource as the goal. If I can't kill my 6 without breaking laws, ruining other guys hunts, and outlawing, I need to get better at duck hunting. If not, and if I break the laws, trespass, skyblast, outlaw, think only of todays hunt/my clients hunt, and just go hell for leather to kill big straps and be the man, I am part of the larger issue that will result in a depleted resource in the long run.
I am seeing a good bit of that in N. LA public hunting areas, and I would hate to see the incredible hunting in the SE/SW part of the state go that way too.

Alspanky:
Not that a photograph of a mallard limit hanging on a gator tail would by any means qualify as some form of evidence towards your point, I definitely don't think that when 4 of your 6 ducks have survival instincts which barely rival that of a coot, that there is any point to be made for your cause. Not to mention that if you have 4 cans, that means you prob had 4 hunters,, with 8 or so ducks, that's really not an indicator of a world class gator tail hunting experience.

Additionally it looks like you're in the timber and I have no real problem with SD's in timber. Its the hundreds of SD's riding around in 3 inches of delta wetlands, chopping wigeon grass as they go pond to pond running around to 'scout' that people are more concerned about.

What's the matter ur butt hurt cause you gotta paddle..............actually it was 6 hunters and we had 12 cans, 4 greenheads, 2 widgons, 2 pintails, 1 grey and 1 ringneck not too bad of a hunt being it was the first time on the lake.Oh we had 2 surface drives running. And by the way it was it lake catahoula where tons of other surface drives, outboards and airboats were running..................keep paddlin

Alspanky:
Let us recall that this thread's entire purpose surrounds the debate between whether or not Surface Drives have negative effects on sitting duck populations.

You posted a photo of 4 of what are quite possibly the most retarded ducks in the Mississippi flyway, and suggested that killing said ducks was evidence that surface drives don't move birds.

I am simply calling you out for that misstep. Post that photo anywhere else and I will give it praise because I love canvasbacks. But in here, no, it doesn't support your argument. Sorry, try again.

Do surface drives have an effect on ducks? Sure they do but in my opinion not as much as some other people think. Lack of HABITAT is the number one reason why the duck numbers are in decline. I follow the rules that are in place and I don?t run all over scouting. Have you ever hunted Lake Catahoula? Apparently not because there are boats running all over the place and still plenty ducks in the lake. Why? Because of the HABITAT?????..Oh and I'm really not worried if you praise or not

When it comes to the diver species, it seems it just takes them more time to get educated. Same thing with coots. Once they are educated, I lump them in with the smartest of ducks. I've seen my fair share of puddle ducks that when early season or young are stupid as well. I've seen plenty late season coots that you can't touch when they are aware of what a duck blind looks like. So i'm not so sure that opinion is always accurate.

My reply about habitat is that where I hunt there is more grass than anywhere I have ever hunted,not a thing to do with habitat destruction,at least where I hunt-migratory patterns have been shifting at an alarming rate and when ducks get imprinted by following other ducks on altered migratory patterns and this repeats itself,over and over,year after year,it does not take long to have possibly irreversibly altered migratory patterns,get kinda used to 'MT'skies,with a few exceptions thrown in de mix!!!Been hunting hard for over 20 years and habitat where I hunt possibly best in this entire state,bar none and guess what-no appreciable amount of ducks,at least not on any consistent basis!!!

Mandevillian

'Oh and I'm really not worried if you praise or not'.. don't lie to yourself.

'late season coots that you can't touch'.. I've not experienced this. The area I hunt, they are always there for the taking. But unless I want gizzards and livers for a pot of dirty rice, I don't mess with them.

I love the surface drives in the WMA next to my duck spot. I can count on my 28 acre spot to fill up the day before the openings after all them boys ride every square inch and run em all out. KEEP USING THEM BOYS!!!

Been my exact point all along,they do indeed serve a valuable purpose-chase dem ducks to the folks hunting next door!!!There are maybe about 3 -5 folks that are allowed to legally use those noisy boats in the Big Branch Marsh FWR and there is one guy that hunts off Lake Road and when he leaves,he typically scatters whatever ducks might be hanging around!!!Hope dem surface drive guys have greatly assisted ya duck season-they aint allowed where I hunt and that allows me to get to ducks that rarely see a hunter because some of these ponds a royal pain to access!!!

Mandevillian

We only walk and paddle to where we hunt. I've killed my limit every hunt the second split.

Ranger25,Dats awesome. Wish I could say I been killing even close to limits but truthfully have had great chances on few Second Split hunts but my poor shooting has doomed me last few hunts😬Still been fun season with quality drakes plus extremely rare Ringed Teal hen few hunts ago and with all the exploring I love to do mighta stumbled upon small flock of Ringed Teal and know exactly which pond I was in when I had flock of 6 weird-looking teal in my decoys but unless I can clearly ID duck do not usually shoot. Hope drake in with them and going Wed Th Sat Sun and love mid week hunts without ton of hunting pressure. Good luck rest of season.

Mandevillian

Hmmmmmm, If you're fishing in an area that USUALLY is a GREAT fishing hole, but the fish are just not as plentiful there as usual or as you would prefer, there's less fish and they're harder to find/catch, would you start up your boat and run up, down and all around that little fishing hole 'scouting' for fish and expect the fish to stay there and keep biting? Of course not,,,that's similar to what we are doing to these already scarce and stressed waterfowl by running these SD's and other motorized boats all over the wetlands that these few ducks call home--for a short while.

You can't change the flyway migration patterns, BUT you can change the way you manage your marsh, by taking the extra effort to drastically reduce motorized boat access, not using them for 'scouting' all day / week, only paddling in and out of you hunting areas, etc... I challenge you to try it yourself. Go back to Old School tactics for lease travel. Maybe one small quiet put-put mud boat to tow the pirogues with hunter behind it and drop off hunters at their respective blinds, OR maybe everyone paddle in on their own totheir blinds.

I am confident you will see some sort of positive impact on your hunting results, with more birds on the water feeling safe and secure from boat traffic. That is, IF you can stand to stay out of that high-dollar SD, aIrboat ro other contraption long enough....

Hitman

De only way I know how to hunt happens to be 'ole school',using a flatboat and pirogue rack to transport my Chapman pirogues into deep marsh(we rarely jump ducks on the way in,by the way)and then I take extra steps to paddle typically a minimum of 30 minutes to not only get away from the Mothership but also to reduce the chance that another hunter will set up close to me.I have been watching the ducks in the areas I have been hunting and not surprisingly,the vast majority are working tree-lines well off the typical beaten paths that probably 99% of the hunters use.Can't blame de ducks and I intend to take full advantage of what my observations have consistently been.Think what I am gonna do if I have two other hunters with me tomorrow is to put one of my buddies on de 'X' that I was on last few days and I will make the extra effort to make my way sorta in the same series of ponds where I shot a Ringed Teal(saw suspicious flock of 6 previously-unidentified teal-now suspect that they were small flock of all Ringed Teal)and why not put myself on de 'Y' as is why not!!Good luck to all de balance of de season.I quit following thread on Why No Ducks-tired of all the complaining with no viable solutions being offered.Gonna bust it and see what I come back with.Always enjoyable getting greenheads and few fat greys that are decoying like First Split ducks!!!

Mandevillian

I just need to get something off my chest fellas, mandavillian this first part is strictly for you bud so pay close attention. For everyone's info in case they haven't followed my post on ............ my opinion on no ducks. Yeah there has been a few comments that if taken wrong could come across like someone might be complaining and yeah I guess it is complaining in a way. There are people upset all over the state and in the south because they are having the worst season they have ever seen. I don't understand what mandavillians problem is with my post, he might not like me, It could be even as happy as we were that he paddled out and killed a few ducks including a ringneck teal. There are certain places you just can kayak too. You would get killed trying to kayak to my property and you def would be wore out trying to get out of my property on a low tide. Just like I told you I think that's great! The point of that post is to open people's eyes on what is going on to the north of us and what very well could be the problem with our migration and why we aren't seeing ducks. Also to get people backing the cause and discuss what we could do about the issues that we are having. If you guys don't mind if you haven't checked my post out please do and if you have any ideas, advice, or questions please comment. This very well could be the future of our sport. If you have been on it thank you for checking it out.

Hit Man

You can't change the flyway migration patterns

That's totally false

Guess what,just got off phone with duck fanatic and guess what-some folks he knows are having the absolute BEST season ever,some having the worst,blaming it on DU or anything other than chance is quite simply put not gonna do one bit of good for anyone and I have never met the gent who initiated this post,have absolutely zero ill-will towards him and have totally abandoned that particular thread and have seen more than enough ducks in areas that I hunt to lead me to believe maybe,just maybe,the reason these ducks are hanging around(educated guess but based upon years of observation)is that they are a royal pain to get to,takes more than a serious effort and if ya aint up to bustin' it ya aint gonna ever see these ducks,no doubt about it!!Sorry I like ole-school hunts and glad I hunt where air-cooled propulsion boats not allowed,leaving more than enough pristine,hard-to-get-to ponds for folks like me.I might be crazy to post for fear that folks will over-run certain hunting areas,but I enjoy the hunt experience,even if I shoot only a duck or two and dat's about all I care to say,just glad I found certain very nice pockets of very willing participants and hope to get few more greenheads and fat greys as lagniappe.The ducks are big-time loaded up in Delacroix,according to more than a few folks,guess DU was not as successful as some would suspect in 'short-stopping em'!!!

Mandevillian,just a passionate duck hunter enjoying a quality season,not focused on quantity,never have been!!

Back to the post at hand, can us motors spook ducks yes........can airboats spook ducks yes.......... can a paddle hit the water the wrong way spook ducks yes. All my life I have hunted ducks all my life I have killed ducks , the past 15 years it has been less and less but go to my post if you want to know why. We used long tail go devils till surface drives came out. My uncle still hunts out of that same old go devil and my uncle on his lease has been the only person I myself know of this year to be successful on the majority of his hunts, he just happens to be in that sweet spot. I am just across the marsh from him and my habitat is better but it just hasn't been where they want to be. Where they want to be is the key words. Ducks in Louisiana and all over this country has been hunted and to get to these hunting spots, you used whatever was necessary. Hell I have got to water to deep for my waders and swam to get closer to where the ducks were. Every hunt club and hunter I know for the majority uses surface drives they are cheaper and will go! Some even has to use an airboat to get to certain locations and these same guys have been successful all my life but they to have noticed the decrease of migration and it is effecting them too. I just got off the phone with a club manager on my way in from scratching this morning and there impoundment is beautiful in prime marsh and the can at any point hold 10 to 20,000 ducks and he told be they did a survey just this morning after the front with wildlife and fisheries they estimated the were holding 200 ducks. It isn't because they ran surface drives or there airboat , it is simply because this isn't where they want to be! Look at my page if you want to know where they are or just research and type in something like mallard mayhem! Or mallard slaughter!!!!! Or twenty minute limit!!!!!!!!!! Something crazy about killing ducks and you can see for yourself. I think it is wrong for anyone to run around like an idiot with anything scouting in any habitat. All you have to do is check stuff out from a distance with binoculars . To be completely honest with you if we had a real migration like we use to here in Louisiana you didn't really worry to much with were you sat up , what mattered was how you set up and to be brushed more then the guy hunting down from you! If you haven't read any of my post please do and see for yourself why we don't have ducks!

Your correct alspanky god set those jet streams along time ago and the both funnel straight down to Louisiana and the merge point is right over my not over hunted, vegetation covered, no pressure havin, brushed to hell and back, decoys perfect, duck blind !!!!!!! That has not been good at all but was awesome years ago and has gotten worse and worse every year

I tell you what mandavillian you keep doing what your doing brother and not care about the issues at hand and support DU he'll I pay my dues every year the facts were shown to you just as we have everyone else . I have killed more ducks than most this year and I am all about the experience. The thing that bothers me the most is that the next generation will not get to see that or experience it and other parts of the state are struggling that is the whole point. This is my last comment to you if you need to say something hit me up on my post or private msg me.

All these hunts were over the years some were this year on a good day

Every duck killed in these pics is out of a surface surface drive with a loud ass voodoo exhaust but it isn't abused or used to scout or run by other people's spot it is a means of transportation to get back and fourth safely in conditions that any other means would not do the job

This is my main canal leaving my blind on a hard north wind freezing temps and tide running out faster than you can pack your gear up! Then as soon as you get through this obstacle you are facing a 15 min up stream ship channel run with barges and ships through in wakes up to 4 feet and then hope you can get your boat out of the launch due to the tide being low. The best hunt last year I fought 4 ft swells and rain wind and current crossing to get to my property. That is after you drive to Texas to launch because if you launched in Louisiana you would have a 40 min boat ride with everyone's gear and my boat ain't no chump. It runs 30 mph loaded with gear and hunters . Just letting y'all know what some people deal with to hunt and why different boats and motors are used. Not to mention if the green boys come to check u , what do you think they are driving.