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All south hunters join flyway federation

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To all south hunters. Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia. Guys this man is for real. Josh Goins is making all efforts to restore what is being taken from you, your kids, and grand kids. Someone has finally stood up against the absolute illegal hunting practice for you and I that is totally legal for northern hunters and towards the west hunters. Which is hunting over baited fields, ponds or standing corn. Can someone please tell me how this loophole and law change allows these hunters that we all watch on you tube videos hunt in fields of standing corn stalks unharvested or run a combine thru it not harvest it or somewhat harvest it but hey throw some of that corn back on the ground the ducks need food. Mechanically pump water in 12 to 18 inches then bring 10 people at $300 per gun shoot ducks then get paid from other laws for the corn not harvested from the federal government. Which as we all know means we just paid for them to do so. This is unbelievable that its allowed guys. Josh is building a federation to return the laws that prevented this before. Anyone who has been duck hunting for atleast 20 years has seen the demise of waterfowl in our state. To the new guys who have just started over the last 5, 6, 7, years or so you hear the stories and see the pictures but yall have no idea what used to be here. If something isn't changed you never will and what you are seeing and killing now will be less and less. It cost $60 to join this federation which is a non profit guys. We all know that's 1/2 tank of gas in a boat for a trip. Or 3 boxes of shells. He needs members and supporters. Its the only way to make a difference if yourself or your generations to come want to remain in this sport.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Don't waste your money,it will never happen up here in Missouri.Whats next no wrp ground ,,the fact are that the ducks don't have to migrate to louisana or akansas like they used to. You should partly blame your hometown boys Duck Dynasty. We had a great year here this year. You ought to see the mallards here now eating all the corn!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
im sure you did have a great year. Who wouldn't if year after year you are allowed to do what is allowed. When you imprint in ducks heads after several generations they start changing what they do. And instead of blaming duck dynasty start thanking ducks unlimited which in the beginning had wonderful intentions. But now as we know and see has fought to do all it can do for your rights to be able to hunt standing stalks of corn, or lets cut it and not harvest and hunt it fields. You mention you should see the mallards eating corn there now. You should see the ducks come running when I take my 3 year old to the park and throw feed to them. Man if we could only have a gun in our hand when they do like the corn field hunters. You should thank all involved when the migratory treaty act was altered. Some states didn't even know what a duck looked like til this happened.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I understand your frustration,its not as simple as flooding corn fields. what about the tens of thousands of moist soil acres which the ducks prefer at least thru mid season.These moist soil acres are helping some in southern louisana to reduce nitrogen runoffs in the Mississippi river. What about spinning wing decoys that fool all the young ducks before they even arrive in Missouri. Some of the clubs up here had the worst year on record but we were holding record amount of birds in the state. The birds are becoming nocturnal because of the added pressure the last 20 years. What about the weather changes, hell the geese don't even migrate like they did 20 years ago look at swan lake in Missouri as an example. As long as we have open water up here they don't need to fly to lousiasa or Arkansas. We have years here where the birds are still up north by the time season ends here.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I understand your frustration,its not as simple as flooding corn fields. what about the tens of thousands of moist soil acres which the ducks prefer at least thru mid season.These moist soil acres are helping some in southern louisana to reduce nitrogen runoffs in the Mississippi river. What about spinning wing decoys that fool all the young ducks before they even arrive in Missouri. Some of the clubs up here had the worst year on record but we were holding record amount of birds in the state. The birds are becoming nocturnal because of the added pressure the last 20 years. What about the weather changes, hell the geese don't even migrate like they did 20 years ago look at swan lake in Missouri as an example. As long as we have open water up here they don't need to fly to lousiasa or Arkansas. We have years here where the birds are still up north by the time season ends here.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Can you bait deer{corn) in Louisiana? Yes Can you chum fish in Louisiana? Yes Can you mow sunflowers?
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Can you bait deer{corn) in Louisiana? Yes Can you chum fish in Louisiana? Yes Can you mow sunflowers?
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
frustrated or not the laws that are in place now allows certain areas up north to bait legally and hunt ducks. Everyone south knows what practices are allowed to be done. And we all know who the major player is for the last several decades to improve areas up north to keep and hold birds from coming down. When you go on youtube and listen to what josh goins has to say and read word for word what was 100 percent illegal and now due to some law changes. Everyone all the sudden is a farmer getting paid to guide hunts on and then get paid by federal funding. Which means we are paying for these states to hunt over baited flooded ponds and then get paid by the government for unharvested food sources. Yes you bait for crawfish which is a farm raised product and harvested by the crawfish farmer. Anyone ever seen crawfish migrating in the air from up north and being short stopped by any and all practices that is allowed. Cant say I have. In your post above you are bragging about all the mallards eating the corn and don't waste our money. 10,000 members with 5,000 supporters in a year. Good start. 10,001 as of 530 am this morning with many more to come. And we know we are up against ducks unlimited in this fight. But if no one tries to reverse what is done we will all be golfing or on a bowling team. No thanks. I promise you this number will double by the end of the year
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
maybe you can point me to the laws of flooding standing corn that have been changed in the last 25 years, we have been able to flood standing corn as long as I can remember,at least 40 plus years and no we are not funded from the government.Most of the clubs in Missouri are private and not guided duck hunts good luck in the fight against DU but its not going to change any laws here.Its not a food issue it a weather issue. Look at the problem of coastal erosion and in next 40 years places like grand isle will be under water etc. They even plant and flood corn now in most of Arkansas and their seasons suck the last few years.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Last post from me.Just looked at josh youtube videos, am I missing something? You southern hunters want to make it illegal up here to flood standing corn but keep it legal in Louisiana to flood rice fields, even standing unharvested rice.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I lied,I apologize! the migratory bird act in 1998 didn't change any laws here in regards to flooding standing corn!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
You have to flood rice to grow it. its a required standard for its agricultural practice. So having some in the water is a natural byproduct of the process. You still cant BAIT the pond. You don't have to flood corn to grow it!!
And by the way, growing corn and not harvesting it to feed ducks, AND THEN FLOODING IT, is not only baiting but you are creating a habitat/refuge that would not exist in that location naturally!!! especially if you then use pumps and ice eaters to keep the water open beyond what would naturally negate the normal result of weather.
you talk about how ducks dont need to migrate if they have food and water. Well thanks captain obvious, no shit. but the practices you are bragging about are only contributing to that scenario. Even birds that are not big grain feeders are being affected b/c there is simply too much habitat being created that negates the natural instinctive need to migrate.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
No. Not joining. For now, i look at more realistic ideas. Water everywhere up and down the fly way no doubt was the most key factor for us not having any ducks. That, along with the fact that it was an extremely mild winter.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
https://www.ducks.org/facts?poe=conservation
You are outflanked already. And you are mixing pertinent facts with irrelevancies. It has at no time been illegal to hunt standing corn at the federal level flooded or otherwise. Nor is/was hunting a chopped but unharvested ag field for waterfowl legal under any circumstances. These facts have been consistent since the 50's. The issue is the presence of open water (with or without feed) and the presence (with or without water) of feed are the ingredients for short stopping . If you really look around the internet, watch hunting shows ect. you will see a ton of dry field hunting from MO north and there are reservoirs, rivers and stock tanks all over. I agree that any mechanical device used to hold water open in freezing conditions constitutes an unfair practice and should be banned but even with none of that there are still plenty of open water areas when it is this warm. The idea that some infinite amount of open water is being maintained though artificial means is a bit unrealistic but in the end irrelevant. If you want to push for a meaningful policy change then push to end all corn subsidies (ethanol, price support ect.) and expand CRP. That will cut down on destruction of breeding grounds in the north and the free bread wagon in the southern plains. But you still won't control the weather. And honestly banning the hunting of flooded corn may be counter productive since a good smartweed/wild millet moist soil unit will attract more ducks than a flooded corn field since it will have more open water, more feed per acre longer and more invertebrates and other side dishes that ducks enjoy. Flooded corn is just the easier route but ban it and I'm sure Penn and Moultrie will have special blends of moist soil plants (not covered by the need to follow any ag practices and able to be mowed and hunted) on shelve with the quickness. And as I have stated elsewhere undoing WRP seems a long shot. Its not that I don't want mallards and blue geese to flock to LA in the same numbers they did in the 50's or that I don't want grays like the mid 90s i'm just being realistic about what options exist to alter the present situation.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
So, as a 35 year Louisiana duck hunter, I disagree with foulhooked on one thing, that the food source has nothing to do with it. I just saw a video of train yard with open top cars full of corn. Ducks were swarming this thing and landing on top eating the corn. To say it's not about the food source is inaccurate. That's all its about. That's why they migrate, to find food and open water.

What I will agree with you on is the baited field subject. According to the federal law you can hunt in a flooded field with any type of crop as long as it was either: a) harvest prior to flooding b) if not harvested, can not be touched mechanically (cut or mowed) and then flooded, or if not harvested and flooded it can not be mechanically cut or touched in any way. I personally have gone back and forth with this over the last few years. Because you are correct, we hunt over rice fields that have been harvested, and some even have a second crop. We just can not legally manipulate the field after it's flooded in those cases. Not mechanically anyway. You can get out there with a machete and do whatever you want. That's taking the guidelines as literally as you can. I think it's a grey area, and it probably should be clarified.

The migration is different, there is no doubt if you have hunted consistently over the past 5 years you have watched the quality of the duck hunting decline. Less birds, and the migration seems to get later year after year. In February the fields seem to fill up. I don't think we really have a leg to stand on considering we do the same exact thing as the guys with the corn fields, except we use rice.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
https://www.facebook.com/unguidedhunts/videos/294815817848861/
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
You can grow rice without flooding it as long as you have ample amount of rain which you need for any crop, water is just acting as a herbicide.Here in Missouri we have thousands of acres in new refuges and tens of thousands in wrp(moist soil plants) which produce thousands of ponds of feed per acresLook at all the loss of wetlands in Louisiana every year Why is it we never used to have armadillos this far north or the amount of bobcats etc It is climate change.There is 0 chance of getting flooded corn outlawed and if id would happen it would' nt help you anyway.Your efforts should focus on costal erosion and wetland restoration! there is a lot of guided duck hunts in Louisiana also! maybe we should outlaw guided fishing trips in Louisiana since they are using a public resource!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Thanks for my new nickname Captain Obvious, I like that and it is very obvious to me that they don't need to use their natural instinct to migrate to Louisiana anymore due to habitat and weather.Did I leave out that our flooded wrp ground and flooded corn is very beneficial for the health of ducks for the spring migration back north.I hope you guys down south have a great hunting year next year cause if you do I know we will cause they have to fly here first.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Kind of interesting conversation I just had with un-named duck hunting buddy and he has a good friend who has awesome family hunting land in Arkansas and they have basically verified just about 100% of what Josh Goins is claiming,even going as far as calling a state,Kansas,to be exact,the 'New Arkansas'.Now what would cause Kansas to be the 'New Arkansas' other than migratory pattern manipulations!!My buddy was planning an awesome Arkansas mallard hunt but the fellow that owns and manages the land said to forego the trip.Other news,another buddy paid over $5000 for a primo duck club and because they had so few ducks(wonder why???),he did not hunt one single day and other members of that fine club reported miserable results,kinda sad as that perhaps makes it not one but two consecutive seasons where the pickings were slim and bear in mind this is perhaps the most prime area in SE LA where the property is managed for gator hunting and deer hunting as well and their feed situation is totally incredible so no one should be proposing the sad argument that feed is an issue!!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Too bad ducks don't eat sugarcane used to be rice Fields as far as Kansas goes you are right duck hunting pressure has forced ducks to migrate where there is less pressure ducks are nocturnal now when Josh says the 1998 treaty or whatever's allow flooding corn that is an outright lie we have been able to flood it since the 1950s how many ducks in Louisiana now? Long term average? You guys need to stay off hot sauce who the hell made up hot cropping?
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Maybe we should be outlaw the Mechanical flooding of Greentree rrsovier in Arkansas. Flooded corn as nothing to do with poor seasons in Louisiana.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Just watched video of ducks eating corn out of railcars where they flooded? I think I'll hunt ducks next year in u flooded corn Fields next year with 100 robo ducks notill better outlaw that too no more notill!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Fowlhooked (aka Captain Obvious), I see where you just registered on the site in February. Do us all a favor and fill out some information about yourself. For that matter, why don't all of the persons on this thread and others do the same (like Facebook, no one should be anonymous).
There's no problem here in this thread, just a suggestion so folks will know whom they are speaking with.
My duck season was horrible. On our lease, we have had a steady and marked decline for the last 4 years to this season which was pitiful.
We (Louisiana Sportsman) wrote two stories at the conclusion of the season. 'What happened to all the ducks' https://www.louisianasportsman.com/hunting/waterfowl-duck-hunting/ducks/what-happened-to-all-the-ducks/ and the piece with the Flyway Federation, https://www.louisianasportsman.com/hunting/waterfowl-duck-hunting/ducks/flyway-federation-hot-cropping-a-big-reason-for-poor-louisiana-duck-seasons/. Both stories, and your opinions here, tell the tale - there is a lot going on up and down the flyway that are contributors to the lack of ducks in otherwise historic duck meccas.
My good friend, X-duck hunting fanatic, and long-time Louisiana Sportsman writer Humberto Fontova said to me at the camp, 'We need a drought'. He and I agreed that cold weather and duck breeding success in a particular year were not as much of a hunting success factor as water. When there's a dust bowl up and down the flyway they have to come south. The ducks then get imprinted for a number of years. No one can deny the fact that the flyway is flooded. My two cents.
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I agree with you that nobody should hide behind a fake name. When I get home from fishing in Arkansas, I'll will tell you guys who I am, duck hunting experience, etc
I think Louisiana is a terrific state and the reason I even read Louisiana sportsman is for the great fishing articles I fish in Grand Isle in late summer,great place and great people. I never participate in forums like this but the one really caught my attention
There were a lot of clubs big clubs had terrible year up here also, they had the food water etc and we had
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
We had millions of ducks in area still couldn't kill any I post info when I get home and have access to computer
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Tony Taylor,Not a problem telling anyone who my identity is,Anthony(Tony) Cyprus,Jr.die-hard duck fanatic sick of miserable duck seasons and not buying the lame excuses we keep hearing about why our past few seasons have been weaker than weak.Plenty of manipulation of normal migratory patterns all up and down the flyway and guess ole Josh Goins struck a raw nerve with his expose',kinda like Lee Zurik exposing the 'claw-backs' United Health Care and other Health Insurers were routinely hammering consumers with,the truth often hurts,hurts badly sometimes and my understanding is that Josh has quite a following,not sure how many folks have joined but I understand he has over 10,000 folks interested in restoring normal and predictable migratory patterns and guess DU not liking it one bit.For the record,I am a member of both organizations,tend to favor Delta Waterfowl(The Duck Hunter's Organization)as one of their main goals is predator eradication,not creation of 'duck sanctuaries' and in my estimation,predator eradication should be foremost.Josh and I were in fairly constant communication and my bad,not his,as I got very busy with plenty of other issues and need to get back in touch with him,especially now with LA Sportsman running 'Hot-Cropping' article!!!Kinda hard to ignore his arguments!!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
First let me start with that I am not challenging anyone's experiences or theories. I have discussed them all. Each area is a little different as to why. We all want to kill ducks and get frustrated when that doesn't happen. I spend way more money than I should to duck hunt and I ponder all the reasons for the lack of birds. No food, No water, to much water, to much pressure, pro-drives, gator tails, short stopping, No cold fronts, The Duck Commander, I think my neighbor baits.and everyone's favorite, Ducks Unlimited (Good or Bad).
Ducks need Food, Rest, Water and the right temperature. El Nino is my number one reason for a terrible season. El Nino ( West to East weather patterns causing lots of rain in the south and warmer than usual winters) We did not have any real Arctic Blasts from the north to carry ducks all the way down south. I don't think that ducks will fly south thousands of miles against the wind in warm weather. Winds blew from the west all winter. Cold will make them move. My number two is pressure. More hunters than ever in my area. Everyone runs all over the marsh all day looking for birds in my area. Mud boats can go everywhere at 30 plus MPH, you can't stop em. Oh and if your boat can't do 30 MPH have a NASCAR mechanic rebuild your engine and add Harley Davidson Pipes with a football stadium size light bar. I love seeing 6 plus hunters that over slept screaming across the marsh at daylight when i,m sipping my coffee. Some of my best years we had no food but the birds still came to rest. I had one small area that held birds this season. Paddle in and out. My last three weekends were the worst but I think that the hunters that started using my pond as a short cut had something to do with it.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I wish is was as simple as saying that migration was stopped due to artificial manipulation by man. The fact is, habitat and climate are mostly likely the two major reasons. This year, i believe that it was more of a climatic issue with above average temperatures and much water up and down our flyway. The long term decline, in my opinion, has more to do with habitat deterioration in south Louisiana.

With that said, in the short term, next season, if water levels up and down the flyway decline and the weather cooperates, more than likely, most hunters will hit their quotas.

The days of the good ole boys pounding mallards all day long are, unfortunately, gone forever.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Weather and climate are big factors. Loss of habitat is huge in our area. If anyone takes the time to listen to any of the information that is on you tube about what josh with the flyway federation is reading directly to you about what has been changed in the laws and is now allowed thru loopholes you will be disgusted unless you are the ones that are being benefited from these changes. And the numbers of birds coming clearly started declining drastically when these changes were made. As I stated above some of the Midwest states never knew what a duck was when it flew in front of them. Now they are the premiere hunting spots in the country. And just as many people post all year long. Whats wrong ??? Where are the ducks??? My ponds are full of feed and have been for years and 10 to 15 years ago we were covered with ducks. Not any more though huh. Just link up and listen to some of the things he is reading directly from laws and data and if things aren't reversed give it 10 years and see what you will be doing for a passion. It wont be duck hunting in Louisiana unless you just enjoy sitting around talking about the good old days while nothing comes in the decoys
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
The thing about all this talk is that I can remember going through this same scenario 25 some odd years ago when we were on the point system, and could only kill 3 ducks at one point. The hunting was poor, and even as a kid I could recognize that. After several years it turned back around. I don't know if its cyclic, or if it's due to changing migration patterns over the years. I know the duck numbers according to the aerial survey in La. were down, but not so significantly that it should have affected us so heavily. I'm like the guy above that sits in the blind and goes over it in my head repeatedly about why the ducks are not here. It's weather, has to be. I'm trying to imagine how much land would have to be manipulated to keep millions of birds from migrating. Catahoula lake is where I grew up hunting. As large as that lake is, what's it hold at it's peak? Half a million birds? 250,000? I just hope it is cyclic, and the next few years it does improve. Louisiana is truly a hunters paradise, and a haven for ducks that find us. Abundant water and food. There are plenty of refuges where the birds can raft up. And if all this is true about the 'hot cropping', hopefully those guys will blow their wads, overpressure the birds, and push them all south.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Wish it were a cyclic issue,think until we get the migratory manipulations stopped,we gonna have even weaker seasons.I have personally witnessed precipitous and ridiculously accelerated decline in gadwall populations,once our bread-n-butter ducks.When I shoot as many mallards as gadwalls,where gadwalls used to rule the roost,something definitely amiss!!!Have seen plenty of woodies in Honey Island Swamp and seriously considering foregoing regular duck season in favor of chasing woodies as they do not appear to be as easily manipulated as other species and with not only their plentiful nature but also reasonable limits,delicious taste,shear beauty,why not!!!Did find few spots in regular duck season that not only receive little to zero pressure,also was spot that tended to harbor teal and might hit it in Teal Season(typically much higher water levels and decent access)and forget about Regular Duck Season for mallards,non-existent gadwalls,few teal,possibly tons of scaup(not my favorite species),buffleheads,etc and instead head to wood duck sloughs,etc!!!Just my 0.02!!!Until migratory manipulation history,history gonna repeat itself and have witnessed it over past 13-15 years,very predictable declines in normal migratory patterns.

Mandevillian(Tony Cyprus,Jr)
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I have to admit, Even when we had lots of birds, we still complained about how unfair it was that we could not bait while other had piles of corn and rice. Maybe the first Post is right and we need to put our money where our mouth is and shut up. But then, Complaining is easy and when drinking at the camp it's a must. Politics,Religion, Roger Goodell, Barack, Trump, Nancy, and one of my favorite These Brilliant Save The Planet Kids, If you don't believe me just ask a kid in school for his thoughts. I'm Not Attacking Josh he probably has his head in the right place and because we all complain someone needs to start. Why did I not think off starting a non profit of Hope and Dreams. Sorry that sounds smart ___ . We can want laws changed all we want. Politicians vote for MONEY and Power. Non-Profits only grow if the problem gets worse. Ducks Unlimited, NRA, Republicans, Democrats, ACLU, Planned Parenthood, PITA, CCA. Non of them solve the problem they only add resistance and collect membership dues. Please don't get me wrong. I do give lots of money to lots of Non- Profits for the resistance and I'm sure Josh has his heart in the right place. But like DUCKS UNLIMITED most of us would shake hands with the Outfitters we claim to hate and then enjoy our hunt. Then while waiting on the next wave of Ducks we would talk about the next time we can get together and collect research data. Please disregard everything I wrote I'm just a cynic. Oh yeah please send Trump a dollar for the boarder wall :)
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Captain Obvious here! Just got home from striper fishing in Arkansas. Actually my name is Jeff stone 60 years young tomorrow, avid duck hunter for last 37 years and owner of 3 different private duck clubs along Mississippi river in central eastern Missouri. down to 1 club now with 100 acres enrolled in wrp program last 5-6 years which we call moist soil plants. I retired from technology business at age 40 and stared farming a little both my ground and others. Learned a hell of a lot about that! I only hot crop my own club now in which I only plant abbot 25 acres of short corn. The rest in millet, buckwheat and moist soil plants which consist mainly of smart grass and wild millets. Ducks love moist soil and 1 acre can produce about 3000lbs of seed that is a lot of duck use days! Duck hunting is changing here too and fast and it is not because of no migration or no ducks in the area. Ducks are becoming nocturnal because of all the pressure,there are hundreds off new clubs in Missouri. We have a a lot of state refuges where ducks hold and a lot of federal land as well. They don't plant corn on federal refuges her any more at least they don't at Clarence cannon refuge. there is now just in Missouri over 175,000 of wrp acres of which most of it is new habitat for waterfowl and other birds as well. We are not manipulating the migration we are providing water and habitat and w have the right to hunt just as much as anybody else in any state. we have had sloe years her too a lot of them and we say where are all th e ducks, well they were still up north! Canada, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska(go Huskers) ,Those states weren't manipulating the migration either! MOTHER NATURE was! If it doesn't freeze up there, snow and cover food sources there we don't do well here either! Guess what? the birds stay up there! Oh! guess What if it doesn't freeze here and in Arkansas and elsewhere they sure as hell don't need to fly to Louisiana either! The teal might and grey ducks but we are killing them here now in late season and that used to be rare. I hope you guys in Louisiana have a great season next year, you live in a great place and I enjoy fishing there with all the great people. what's going to happen when sea oceans rise and flood a lot of coastal areas, are we going to say someone is manipulating the ocean,is Louisiana the only state that can provide food and water for waterfowl, I think not. I am done typing you guys have a great day I am off to have a few coctails,CHOW! Good hunting and fishing this year and next!
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Oh by the way if I am fortunate enough to have a larger boat to fish the gulf her name is going to be! Captain Obvious! And when I tell my hunting buddies up here my nickname they are going to say oh f----- Have a great day
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ok I keep watch videos about flyway federation yet latest about sate agencies governing federal birds and how the, but don't know what they are doing but yet you want the state of Louisiana to control red snapper harvest in federal waters what????Josh needs to quit posting a bunch of bs on line the fact is Missouri now is duck capital because of habitat and water ok we could quit flooding corn here and it would not make a difference in Louisiana the ducks don't need to migrate to Louisiana We have just as much right to flood crops as you guys do what the f
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
ok I keep watch videos about flyway federation yet latest about sate agencies governing federal birds and how the, but don't know what they are doing but yet you want the state of Louisiana to control red snapper harvest in federal waters what????Josh needs to quit posting a bunch of bs on line the fact is Missouri now is duck capital because of habitat and water ok we could quit flooding corn here and it would not make a difference in Louisiana the ducks don't need to migrate to Louisiana We have just as much right to flood crops as you guys do what the f
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
it is weather and it is habitat have a good night thank you duck patterns, oh guys can flood rice but we should nt flood corn what? Flyway federation can have 10 million members does not matter we have the food the weather water etc. go figure Flyway manipulation my ass hot cropping my ass! maybe you guys need to focus on wetland loss in Louisiana outlaw sugar cane farming back to rice etc. if you cant kill teal and other grey ducks you have a problem!!!!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
message for tom Taylor, did you or family own country lodge in flipping Arkansas
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Obviously those against banning flooded corn are hunting it and enjoying benefits that it provides. I’m not saying everything flyway federation is saying is correct, but for anyone who has hunted flooded corn they know the mass amounts of ducks that it produces. No one can defend an argument that flooding corn is not baiting ducks. I have been to multiple properties with corn and other flooded vegetation and the holes without corn are near bone dry while the holes with corn are literally holding hundreds of thousands of birds. Also, most ducks like teal and gadwall migrate on the change in the length of the days. Therefore, weather arguments are partially invalid for those species. Additionally, you literally have to monitor corn heavily due to standing water spoiling it. Land owners must constantly monitor water levels to keep it ripe for duck season. If this isn’t baiting than neither is throwing bags of corn in a pond, which we all know is highly illegal(baiting)! More and more groups are flooding huge lots of corn. This can be seen on almost every hunting clubs Instagram page which are mostly new clubs that have recently started to do this. I appreciate the hard work that goes into it but at the end of the day it should not be allowed. As I believe no states should be able to flood corn or rice for duck hunting. This is killing public land hunters who are die hard s leaving launches at 2AM to come back with hardly any birds. People can say whatever they want but this practice isn’t in favor of the majority nor the ducks. People wonder why numbers are down. Loading corn fields with 10’dudes across shooting limits morning and evening isn’t hurting the numbers..... I hope this rule can be changed but until then each southern state will continue to suffer.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Your first post you were bragging about being able to hunt in cut corn or standing corn. You also bragged about we should see all the mallards eating corn up there now. Now you are bragging about the size boat you fish out of and gonna name it captain obvious. You should name it captain a..hole and it takes a big boat to carry such a big one. Yep mandevillian josh has struck a nerve. We will do all that is possible to support this and him. It might take years if something can be done. If im not mistaken he has made headway in Canada with data and proof already. We are in Plaquemines parish and we are working to have a meeting with some big players down here. If no one makes an attempt my son and grandkids will never see ducks here. Yes land loss and coastal erosion is a problem. Can anyone send me a picture of any project that ducks unlimited has funded to restore or protect any marsh or land down here??? Seriously I don't know of any and not saying they haven't but someone put something up here that they have funded to help one of the most duck hunting states in the country. I truly hope south hunters take 10 to 20 minutes to look at some of the videos and just listen to what he is reading word for word of what has been changed. It makes you shake your head.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
PublicLandAddict if you have witnessed it first hand then you know. Yes its baiting and of course no one north will say it is. Yes they have to control the water. So it starts with what a foot or so of water. Then when the guides slash corn farmers who are getting double paid by the hunters and then the federal government walk into the corn fields and look at the corn all eat up. Dam the ducks cant reach the corn hey bob go turn on the pump and put 8 more inches of water so the ducks don't leave we still got 3 weeks left they cant reach it man. As I said would you complain if you were allowed to go to the grain elevator buy 2,000 lbs of corn go put it in your ponds and sit back and ring the dinner bell without being thrown under the jail. Hell no. Yall come and get it and heres some #2 steel in your face. As I posted before I took my 3 year old to a park last week. Man can you believe the ducks were coming to her while she was throwing feed on the ground. No different than what they are allowed to do. A friend of mine who lives in Georgia and has a tv show went to Kansas and hunted the fields. He told me he was shocked that he was laying down in a blind hunting with so much feed on the ground. 20 hunters in 2 fields limited out 1 hour. And there is nothing wrong with this
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Duckbuster you don't have a clue, flooding corn is not baiting we have been doing it for 50 plus years. If flooding corn is baiting, then flooding any food source is including your rice, maybe you should flood your sugarcane! I am sure that there is baiting going on here as well as in Louisiana. No it starts with about 6 inches of water then we add as we need to protect the food source(corn,millet,buckwheat,etc)then we add as needed. Mother Nature may change things but its not flooded corn! I don't even flood all my wrp at 1 time, why would I? Its sure as hell isn't some bird act of 1998 that changed things, hell you guys are not even killing grey ducks like you used too ,do they munch on corn ? the duck counts per state must be wrong also, long term averages?
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Just read a report from Mississippi,it said I wish they would extend season thru February ,every water hole and club etc. is loaded with ducks! I cant believe they migrated that far south when we have so much corn left.Quack Quack
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Flooding corn is not baiting should not be in the same sentence. Of course you don’t flood all of your ponds at once, once one pond has been depleted you fill up the next. Thanks for proving my point that one property can keep holding birds by manipulating pond by pond. It’s the same at every club. I also agree with you that flooded rice is no different and no human manipulation of a food source like that should be flooded and hunted. I have yet to hear a logical argument that it is not baiting besides “we have been doing it for years”. It comes down to the simple fact that most of these hunters not all but most would never go back to how hunting really is when they can drive straight to the corn and smoke birds. Therefore, they will blindly fight for it because they know their property without corn Will produce nothing.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Right maybe they came down due to the major snow storm. Oh wait our ponds are frozen up north no problem lets get the ice eaters out and solve that problem right quick. Anyone ever watch a video with 2 feet of snow around it that an ice eater took care of that problem. Like I said don't blame yall at all.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Maybe we should get rid of dam and tear down all man made levees, outlaw airplanes and combustible engines, outlaw the manipulation of water in and around New Orleans, who builds cities below sea level anyways? outlaw all guns including hunting guns fair chase in Louisiana when it is legal to bait deer and then shoot the poor things with a gun? Is that fair chase? outlaw all treble hooks on fishing lures, outlaw the flooding of rice,outlaw flooding of trees,not fair to flood acorns that are not naturally flooded! on and on and on ! Outlaw social media! outlaw fake news! outlaw commercial fishing!catch fish with nets is that fair chase?I hope you guys have a good season next year good luck
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hell if the new generation of duck hunters could retrieve all their cripples they might have a good season! lets outlaw shotgun shells, geez 100 bb's flying out to kill you at once! poor Indians no wonder they lost!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
FYI the link below has information on 48 projects Ducks Unlimited is doing or has done in Louisiana. DU has conserved over 477,000 acres in Louisiana more than any other state in the Mississippi Flyway.

https://www.ducks.org/Louisiana/Louisiana-Conservation-Projects
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Correct.477.000 acres more of wrp.moist soil I hope it helps it definitely helps here and elsewhere spreads the ducks out we have had the 4 warmest years in the the 4 years! Again we have been planting corn for last 50 plus years only now an issue it's not the corn causing your poor seasons they are planting lots of corn now to in Arkansas if corn is so majical you should plant some in Louisiana they plant it in Texas
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
We will take land conservation anyway we can get it! I hope land is conserved all up and down the flyway and people continue to shoot ducks naturally. In addition, I am very excited about this topic as a lot of money is being poured into the cause against baiting. Hopefully, the defendants in the court rooms will have a rebuttal like fowlhooked with no answers but dancing around a timeline instead of discussing how it’s any different than baiting! Should help our cause!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Not dancing around anything even if you could get it changed then you have to say no flooding any agriculture land or Greentree resoviers etc what's next flooding moust soil is baiting if flooding corn here is baiting then flooding rice or is also flooding timber is too have a good season next year don't bait have a good time let's outlaw moist soil too oh we haven't talked about how smart ducks have become nocturnal etc they are really educated by the time they get there at least they make good gumbo with all the fat from eating corn
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Duck food for thought 200,000 acres in wrp moist soil food equals 312 sguare miles if new habitat just here! 650 sqare miles in Louisiana
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
See Tony, I hunt in a few places, and the most successful hunts I had this year were right on the other side of Pecan Island. And all we killed were Gadwalls. We would pick em off one or two at a time just being patient. And when I say that's all we killed, that's all we saw. Maybe a few teal. You can watch the Gadwalls coming out of the refuge, fly around in circles, and go back to the refuge. And honestly, that has been the most consistent species of bird in that area for us over the past 2-3 years. That's almost all we have killed. We used to smash the birds in our spot, all species. LDWF says the numbers are still high, so it is very puzzling.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I pretty much lost confidence in the duck estimates last year when Josh and I were talking on a very regular basis and we concluded that the estimates for season before last were ridiculously high(wonder why they dropped precipitously from one year to the next)guess the boat manufacturers,ammo manufacturers,gun manufacturers,etc have a lot to gain,especially for LA hunters who used to purchase duck stamps,guns,decoys,boats,etc like nobody's business.Check out all the rigs for sale on just this site,it is not rocket science guys are fed up with Migratory Manipulations N of us and getting outta de sport big-time.For some unbelievable reason,the duck estimates dropped way down guess they may have been inflated all these years and we have been duped to believe those formerly fantastic numbers!!!Hope and pray that weather and water conditions cause even a slight up-tick in our migratory patterns but I for one will never believe it til it occurs on regular and consistent basis vs what we have been seeing last 15 or so years!!!

Mandevillian,just finished working on Antique Chapman,getting her ready for crawfishing.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
another artic cold front up here! Time for us to stop manipulating the migration and SHORT STOPING WITH HOT CROPS sending the ducks your way enjoy them , when you are done send them back we have lots of golden delight left for them!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Hope you guys left them some flooded rice so they don't starve too bad they don't eat sugar cane! Where are all the grey ducks? in Texas? In Mississippi? Where???? They haven't been up her in a long time, somebody must be manipulating the poor birds!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
As I stated in my post a few weeks ago, there are several visual issues with our marsh in southeast LA that i noticed this season that made me think the season was going to be bad all the way through. We didn't have the amount of feed we normally do. But nobody in the state had birds, thats alarming. Everyone says the season has gotten worse and worse over the the past several years. Let me begin by saying that I am not a supporter of Flyway Federation, Ducks Unlimited, Delta Waterfowl, etc.. In years past I have 'supported' DU and Delta by going to their banquets with friends simply because they are a good time. I don't know much about these organization's practices or their influence on what people claim has 'ruined the Louisiana migration.' I don't pay much attention to the theories buzzing around with Flyway Federation because I haven't experienced the practices or hunting up north with my own eyes. I try not to make assumptions regarding controversial issues based off of things that other people say. I like to formulate my opinions related to these matters based off of facts, data, but most importantly, my personal experiences.

That being said, Fowlhooked, what I do know is that Louisiana people are a special type. You say you fish here, so maybe you have noticed. They are the most entertaining, personable, and passionate group of people in our nation by a landslide. These people are passionate about many a things. Most specifically, We love our LSU Tigers, the three F's (Friends, Family, Faith), and our hunting/ fishing. And when Louisiana people suspect that an outsider/ state is threatening one of these passions, as in this case duck hunting, they join together like no other group in the nation. This is exactly what is happening right now with Flyway Federation. The majority of duck hunters in this area are unhappy with the lack of birds in our state as a whole over recent years. They want a change. Whether FF's theories are right or wrong is yet to be determined, but they are the only group that is presenting disgruntled hunters with the possibility of a change. Many fear if things stay as they have been for years, then duck hunting down here will soon be a thing of the past. This mere possibility of a change is spurring enormous growth in this group. So much momentum that a small facebook group caused DU to respond with a 'Fact or Fiction' video! Think about that for a second...... The massive organization of Ducks Unlimited that has been around since 1937 responded to a mere facebook group that no-one knew about until 3 months ago. This tells me how fast Flyway Federation is growing and that DU's support as whole across LA is taking a serious hit. DU knows how important LA duck hunters are to the duck hunting community as a whole. That video response proves that they are terrified at what Louisiana Duck hunters could accomplish because of how passionate they are. Never say never in regards to things 'will never happen.' You are not from here, so I get that you may not understand how these people work. But coming on one of the most viewed Louisiana Hunting and Fishing forums and bragging about these exact practices that many are starting to believe is a real threat to their passion, culture, and even some's well-being may be a bit counterproductive. I was told to get on here by 5 different people and read this. These people told me that prior to this post they were on the fence about this 'hotcropping issue.' But that reading your comments in this post were their determining factor. This was just a group of hunters that I am in school with......This is telling in regards to how big this issue is spreading throughout the state. However, this thread didn't influence my decision. I'm sticking with what I said from the beginning. It was just a bad year. it will get better next year. I can only speak for my region but high water before the season killed a majority of our duck feed in our marsh. I personally wish we would focus our efforts on building up the habitat that we have here instead of pointing fingers, but i guess that's not the trend. It goes in cycles and these recent years are simply our bad draw of the cycle. But, after reading this, I just thought someone should inform you of the noise you are making down here. You are becoming quite famous. Fowlhooked or 'Captain Obvious' may be becoming the stereotype for what LA duck hunters perceive when they think about northern hunters as a whole. I think you may inadvertently be one of the Flyway Federations greatest helpers.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Yes he has. When I started this post and he was the first to comment stating don't waste your money. And I called about a dozen friends to read his comments about bragging about we are done don't waste your money you should see all the mallards up hear eating corn now. When they read it they called me and said f... that started looking into what flyway federation is stating and joined. Besides his comments if you just sit in school and listen to 15 to 30 minutes about what practices weren't allowed and now are its sickening. And yes we southerners are die hard duck hunters. We are talking about opening day for the next season the day after the closing. If something isn't changed you wont be killing ducks here much longer. Weather??? Sure it has play in it. But changing the treaty act was a huge swing in things since then. I have friends in Kansas for 15 years or better. They didn't even know what a duck was then. Now they have huge migrations that have shifted. And yes he is the most talked about person on this post. A friend of mine was on his way fishing last Saturday morning called me at 6am and said dude you see the comment this freaking northerner is saying. So thanks for pissing a bunch of us off. Keep up the good work
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I apologize about pissing anyone off, I agree the people I have met in Louisiana are fantastic ,my latest post is just trying to get my point across. We up here are just as passionate about duck hunting as you guys down there and we have been doing it just as long, today there are a lot more hunters. The 1998 bird act did not all of a sudden allow us to flood corn, that is a big falsehood. My point is the ducks are not going to migrate to Louisiana unless thewheather forces hem too, yes we have food and lots of it both natural and planted whatever, we also have thousands of acres of new habitat in last 20 years and you cant change that. The states north of here also have thousands acres of new habitat.If flooding corn is baiting then flooding rice ,timber or anything else isto flooding wrp would also be baiting.Flooding refuge systems is baiting.One person on here says I am just dancing around a time frame WHAT? we have been planting corn for last 50-60 years. Show me where the 1998 bird treaty act changed anything.I am not bragging about anything, I am pointing out the facts .There are more ducks using Texas in last 20 years are you going to change that? You are accusing us of migration manipulation WHAT?DUCKBUSTER you list on here the specific practices that were not allowed before 1998 that are allowed now! Flooding corn is not one of them, Flooding rice is not one of them, Look at the long term averages of ducks in Louisiana during your season, has not changed much, they just arnt congregated, did all the water in Louisiana have anything to do with your poor season. Arkansas is having piss poor seasons too, I guess that's are fault too ,I guess when we have a piss poor season we can blame Iowa or Nebraska or flooded sugar beats in south Dakota.Good luck on FFL quest ,your going to need it,and even if flooding corn got changed, its not going to change how many or when we hold ducks, by then well have even more wrp just as well as Louisiana will.Good LUCk
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Think we painted ole Captain Obvious in a corner and I will be the first to say that Josh Goins did not get the traction he wanted last year but having back-to-back miserable duck seasons more than likely caused more than just a handful of diehards to get on board with his organization.If it were a simple set of factors causing the demise of our duck populations(weather,predation,wet conditions,drought,lack of hatch success,etc),I might buy into the weather,feed,etc scenario.It is a complex set of factors,magnified by migratory manipulation,that has accelerated the serious lack of ducks where they used to be more than plentiful.No doubt weather plays a factor but even in those seasons when the stars all aligned,most of us have noticed serious reductions in what used to be our bread and butter migrater,gadwalls,and my understanding is that they typically are the first migraters,using photoperiod to influence their migrations and when we see far fewer gadwalls migrating,something definitely is amiss,not 100% sure why we see far fewer gadwalls,but perhaps their migrations have been more than manipulated,so much to where they do a reverse-migration or never even migrate anywhere near LA.Think about that one just for a second.When our bread and butter species is in short supply,what chances do we have for successful seasons.Just think back to the redfish craze created by Chef Paul Prudhomme not that many years ago and one of the steps implemented was a reduction in limits for reds,concern for their long-term success and there was a serious concern not unlike what Josh has caused for those willing to even think about what he is proposing.Just think how reactive LAWLF would be if we started seeing serious reductions in speckled trout harvests,coupled with serious reductions in redfish.I remember when there were no limits on flounders and black drum and those species have been caught up in limits being implemented for both species.It may be just a matter of time before LAWLF implements serious reductions in our duck harvests and it won't take many more seasons like what me and a few of my diehard duck hunters experienced before we decide to call it quits or start hunting as far N as we can,just to experience what we had not that many seasons ago.Just a casual glace at my duck logs from about Katrina year to now shows me that we are experiencing a serious decline in the biggest migrater we used to count on,more than time for alarm and if nothing is done,might be targeting buffleheads and scaup,not exactly what most folks desire!!!Let things remain the same,just do not hope to shoot many desirable species,unless ya start targeting one of the species that most likely can't be easily manipulated,the fine and plentiful wood duck!!!Just my 0.02,take it for what it costs ya!!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
The 1998 migratory bird reform act did not all of a sudden allow us here to flood standing corn,and lets say down the road all of a sudden it is no longer legal to flood standing corn,so be it.It will also no longer be legal to flood rice fields. Is it not baiting to mow planted sunflower fields to attract migrating doves? Is it not baiting when you dump corn or any other attractant next to your deer stand? is it not baiting hanging a chum bag over you boat ? This will be my last post and to close I would like to say I am truly sorry if I opissed you guys off I hope your duck seasons turn around and become better. I am just try to get my point across, but please show me where the 1998 migratory bird reform act all of a sudden allows us to flood standing corn.Is the weather and pressure,hunters uo 40 % last 20 years,Thanks DUCK DYNASTY
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Fowlhooked is just having fun with you but he makes some good points. We just don't deal with disagreement well anymore. Ducks get free Farmed food everywhere but in the marsh all the way south.Years ago the Sportsman had 20 plus people just like him that loved stirring the pot. They all used sarcasm to make their points and if that didn't work, some would insult your intelligence. I use to find it quite entertaining and read through the post every night. Blogs and post allow people the safety of not getting punched in the mouth for their opinions. I MISS THE Admiral. Ducks move with the weather ( Arctic Blasts ) and in the direction of the wind. If their were millions of birds in New Mexico we would have had a great year for the past 5 years (El Nino). Good luck changing laws to help us in the marsh. Every person (Gender Neutral ) should have something to be passionate about. Ducks, Fishing,, Work, Family, God, Gun Laws, 50,000 people from Venezuela heading to the boarder, Global Warming, Neutralizing a human at 9 months and selling the meat, Denver making a law for non citizens to legally crap on the street. I hate how much I pay to hunt and the lack of Birds. Going to work every day and paying my taxes takes my mind off of it. I guess if I had friends keeping me better informed at 6 am before going fishing I would be more passionate. The cities are burning down my friends and the Zombies will be heading your way. Politician listen to Money and Power. Some of that was sarcasm for humor. The Admiral would understand.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I love the people of Louisiana and the state ,I never met a bad person there, and it is never my intentions of insulting anybody's intelligence! period I apologize to everyone here on how some time I try to get my point across I know the baiting issue is complex. Why is it you we up here can plant sunflowers and the mow and not considered baiting, I don't know if we are going to consider baiting we need to look at all aspects not just corn.yes the migration is shifting west why? maybe has to due to amount of pressure towards the east I hope your seasons return to what they used to be I hope the younger generation of hunters become more sportsman than just killers. But I am a firm believer that hot cropping or whatever it is is the results of what is happening. Right now it is LEGAL to BAIT ducks with corn here just as well as it is legal to plant food plots for deer here bait a hook for fish here, bait minnow traps here etc. again I apologize if I offended anyone I hope the ducks return to louisana during your open season
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
How bout adding more fuel to de fire-went to pick up some small rollers to use to finish the fiberglassing work I have been doing to finally get my Antique Chapman(over 30 years young)ready for crawfish season and spotted one of my favorite magazines,none other than Marsh and Bayou,not sure of ole Capt Obvious has ever seen one,doubt so since he aint a local yocal and guess what I spotted in the Marsh and Bayou.Nice little article by Jarrod Gourges,Jr,entitled,'Where did all the ducks go?'.Seems lots of folks are in agreement with Jarrod and here is a direct quote from his article.'My opinion of the main culprit is a controversial one,but I am not scared to share it with you.I personally believe the amount of 'duck habitats' provided up north by certain organizations is the main problem.Is flooding a 500 acre plot of duck feed for 'habitat' good for the numbers?Absolutely.Coud that really stop migratory waterfowl from migrating through?Absolutely,I'll tell you why!Duck organizations,as well as hunters with the means,have started flooding unharvested agricultural fields.It is illegal to hunt over an unharvested agricultural field:however,some people are actually hunting over these fields and not hiding it at all.Some are even comfortable enough to post it on social media.I am very active on Instagram with my page,Fowl Habitz.'

There ya have it,yet another gent with pretty much the same opinion as many of us on this site.Bet he gets plenty of traffic on his social media platforms!!!So be it,folks,unless something drastic changes,probably never gonna see the migrations we saw not that long ago!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
correct except thing, there are thousands of acres of new habitat here and elsewhere, HOWEVER; ITIS NOT ILLEGAL TO HUNT OVER UNHARVESTED AG FIELDS!!! IF THEY HAVE BEEN manipulated LIKE MOWING THE CROP OR BROADCASTING ADDITIONAL GRAIN YES IT IS ILLEGAL. why it is not illegal to plant then mow sunflowers, I have no idea.flooding an unharvested grain fields is not illegal including corn ,suflowers,bukwheat,millet,milo,soybeans,wheat,and everyother grain.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I agree the migration can be altered, I never argued that agree with the part of article about flooding a 500 acre food plot(WRP) How about 312 square mile food plot just here in Missouri I don't know how many in other northern states. There are now about 2 million acres enrolled in wrp how many flooded I don't know. The wetland restoration, moist soil plants does help you in Louisiana with chemical runoff in Mississippi river as well as erosion. Seems to me the FFL is barking up the wrong tree, maybe they should be fighting the wrp program and wetland restoration, Ducks prefer it way better than any corn till it get very cold. and no I am not bragging about the additional habitat here I hope you guys get the ducks back but its going to take a prolonged freeze here and that doesn't happen as often as it used to Hell as long as they have food(whatever it is) and open water in Canada they sure as hell don't have to migrate here either so we may be facing the issues as you guys are but again:it is not illegal to hunt in unharvested ag fields flooded or not. Pheasents,deer,quail,rabbits,geese,ducks,or anyother game
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Where did all the ducks go article only confirms 100% of what I have been saying and getting beat up here.exept the ag fields thing habitat habitat habitat So lets eliminate flooded standing corn,is tit really going to change anything? Are we then going to argue that flooding millet,buckwheat,other grains like rice illegal? Good luck with your crawfish season sounds interesting and I hope the ducks return to Louisiana Here a question?where did all the grey ducks go wrp(moist soil perhaps) mallards mainly in corn when it gets very cold greys duck not If and when it freezes up here your ducks will return
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
If Flyway Federation was barking up the wrong tree as you stated, you wouldn't be on this site complaining as you are about possibly loosing your corn.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Greenhead1 don't know if there are any other northern hunters posting on my topic of discussion but he is and has been the main one defending their farming, non farming , well almost got all the feed off the ground before we hunt practices. Guess we will have north versus south again but for a different reason this time. Any one ever been on a dove hunt which is a migratory bird where the field that has been planted, cut but if it has any feed on it at all and wildlife agents show up. Guess what heres all your tickets and loss of hunting priveliges
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
fowlhooked,Wish we knew where the gadwalls went,probably have steadily had their migatory patterns altered just like the other ducks have-how else could one surmise where they went since my understanding is that they and teal are the first typical migraters,not relying upon weather events to initiate their N-S migrations but using photoperiod(amount of hours of daylight)to initate their typical migration.However,short-circuit their typical migratory patterns(habitat,habitat,habitat but habitat created to keep ducks from migrating-hunting clubs with expensive dues,etc)and guess what ya get,migration alteration so much as to totally shift migration much like we are fighting,my friend.Guess the greys never did make their way to LA because there were habitats created elsewhere to keep em!!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I was never arguing about us losing our corn, I was debating the issue of it being legal or illegal.1998 bird whatever didn't change anything and the articlle in Marsh And Bayou id wrong in stating it is an illegal practice. I was always saying it was habitat and weather, I really don't care if we lose the corn, it is going to change things, I personally don't think so.It will force a lot of places here to convert to moist soil (weeds) and then there will be even more feed since it produces more pounds per acre and inverbrates also I guess we should call it legalized baiting, I hope your birds return next year and the year after that,maybe you good get you seasons pushed back a couple weeks.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
For what it is worth,here comes a direct quote from the LA 2018-2019 Hunting Regulations,not my words but directly from regs.
'It is legal to take migratory game birds,including waterfowl,coots and cranes,on or over the following lands or areas that are not otherwise baited areas.
Standing crops or flooded standing crops(including aquatics)
Standing,flooded,or manipulated natural vegetation;flooded harvested croplands;or lands or areas where seeds or grains have been scattered solely as a result of a normal agricultural planting,harvesting,post-harvest manipulation or normal soil stabilization practice.'

Notice quite clearly there is not a mention of un-harvested croplands and that is where the real issue lies.There is yet another paragraph that states the following.

' It is legal to take migratory game birds,EXCEPT waterfowl,coots and cranes,on or over lands or areas that are not otherwise baited areas,and where grain or other feed has been distributed or scattered solely as the result of manipulation of an agricultural crop or other feed on the land where grown,or solely as the result of a normal agricultural operation.'

The way I interpret that and most likely the exact way a Game Warden would interpret that would be that one can't hunt over an area where grain had been scattered via agricultural practices,plain and simple!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Can you please elaborate on your comment regarding, 'Hunting Clubs with expensive dues, etc...' and explain how they are preventing Grey Ducks from migrating.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Pretty simple-if a habitat is established where there was not one previously and plenty of either natural or manipulated duck food was readily available,what reason would a grey duck have to migrate S if they had all the corn,etc readily available and throw in ice-eaters(just Google Ice Eaters and see what comes up).Once migratory manipulation has been well-established,what chances do the hunters S of where the migratory manipulation is taking place have???

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I asked for you to elaborate on your comment ' Hunting Clubs with expensive dues, etc...'. I know what an ice heater is. I don't know the answer to my next question and I am not sure if a census has ever been done on it. Can you provide a percentage on the use of ' Ice Heaters' used up and down the flyway and how much open water is created from the use?
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
BowhunterGus,Wish I had that answer and perhaps Josh Goins has the answer.What is alarming,at least to me,is the steadily and rapidly-accelerated lack of grey duck migration from about Katrina year to now.The past two seasons have been more than miserable and anyone hunting anywhere near where I hunt should be able to vouch for the incredible amount of duck feed(natural)everywhere.Some of the grasses(widgeon,coontail to mention just a few)are so thick that at low-water conditions,it is really a chore to paddle through the thick and ever-present grasses.Habitat is more than enough to support ducks,they have vastly shifted their migratory patterns and wish I knew where they migrated to.Guess if I knew that and it was somewhere in LA,most of us would not be having these discussions,would we??I made an epic hunt,in NDakota,about 5 seasons ago and with the pitiful migrations we have been strapped with,might have to again make the journey that far North just to have a few ducks to shoot.Check with other concerned hunters and perhaps a simple You-Tube search might just totally shock ya!!!Did that last year and saw incredible footage of not only ice-eaters but also areas loaded with ducks that never held ducks,heck folks in some of those states might have never heard a gadwall called a grey duck and they have tons of them now!!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Mandevillian, You post says that it is legal to hunt over standing crops(like pheasant hunt in standing corn),Then it says standing flooded crops,Eactly flooded corn,rice ,millet,buckwheat,any standing crop. Then it says standing, flooded or manipulated natural vegetation. We can as well as you can manipulate natural vegetation, for us here that would be (wrp) weeds like wild rice,millet smartweed,sedges,any weed! Manipulation means we can disturb it like mowing, burning disking etc. And yes we do mow wrp because the weeds can become so thick and tall the ducks cant see the water and it scatters the seed, it is legal in natural vegetation. It is legal to hunt harvested flooded corn and it is legal to hunt harvested corn where there are seeds scattered by normal ag methods. We can have grain loss at corn head, thru the combine etc. Can someone decide to by cheating and scattering more corn because of how they set different settings on combine, YES they can and that is considered baiting and they deserve tickets or shut down. Your other part of your post that says it id legal to hunt migratory bird except ducks coot over baited areas refer to sunflowers or corn for dove hunting primary ,for example we can plant corn and wheat and sunflowers or anything and then manipulate that crop my mowing ,disking, burning and then hunt doves,however,we cant spread more sunflowers out of a bag or broadcast millet out of a bag.but if you do this in a duck lake it must be disked and turned over till no exposed crop shows before flooding.I know it sometimes doesn't make sense,we can mow corn in dry cornfield and hunt doves but not ducks un-harvested crops would be standing corn of flooded standing corn,flooded rice etc
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
We have had 3 bad years of hatchlings on Grays so we are seeing the effects on them I truly believe our breeding counts are way down. And the lack of young ducks being killed up north with spinning wing decoys are playing in too effect. And the grays we did have where in certain area Mechanical decoys are one of the problems we are facing in Louisiana. Ducks are evolving and so should we Habit to north mild winters and flooding. These are just some of them. Louisiana is not the destination anymore We need to fix our problems with navigation waterways so we have more place to hunt and fix our habitat in our states as well as WMA
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
we get checked every year by game wardens ,we aren't doing anything illegal as the laws are today and so when I hear hot-cropping is illegal no it is not, or when I hear the illegal practice of hunting in flooded corn no it is not illegal to hunt flooded crops. You guys can hunt in flooded rice that doesn't have to be harvested. What a normal ag practice is can be debated but that's the laws f today, if they change so be it we will follow them. The other thing hat we are seeing is that ducks are becoming nocturnal, only leaving safe-havens like refuges to fly and feed at night. They know shooting times. There are now more so called duckhunters now then ever before why I have my thoughts .the young ducks are all killed by spinners and the ones left the adult ducks are very very smart. And by the time they get to Louisiana they are even smarter, hell they are hunted 5-6 -7 months out of the year.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
I wouldn't mind at all if the limits were dropped ,i don't think we need to kill 4 mallard a day or 6 teal.or 6 any ducks and when I say the socalled duckhunters I am referring to the new young guys that watched too much Duck Dynasty and then we have the guys that think the limit is morning limit,noon limit and an evening limit and wish they would caught and license forever I tell guys all the time,if you want to just kill stuff,go kill some clay birds.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
All of you guys comments, facts, and theories raise valid points. We all have the right to debate and ask questions, it is one of the many great things that comes from living in a free country. I have hunted in SE Louisiana all my life. I am 32 years old and I have seen the evolution of duck hunting. I was lucky enough to hunt 5,000 acres of private land my father was passed from his father. It was a beautiful place just west of Lake Theriot. From opening day to the last day of the season, we had the option of shooting mallards, pintail, wigeon, grey ducks, and teal. I can remember killing my limit of mallards wearing short sleeves. I can also remember my dad saying ' Its frozen up north, we need to be at the camp'. He was always right, we would show up on Friday afternoon and head out to put decoys out for the morning hunt. I would be amazed by the massive amount of new birds that showed up due to the incoming cold front. A few days later, the weather would warm up and those new birds would head back north. We would still hold a large number of ducks or what we called them ' Local Birds'. These ducks would remain in the area throughout the season and naturally become more and more difficult to hunt. Another cold front would push down and fresh ducks would be pushed as well. It was a constant cycle. My freshman year in high school we decided to give up the land, and start deer hunting. My dad was passionate about bow hunting and wanted to pursue it. I enjoyed deer hunting with him, and I continued duck hunting in SE Louisiana as well. I watched the duck hunting in our state start decline over the next 10 years. Yes I still had many great hunts, but overall the numbers became fewer and fewer. Six years ago, I started duck hunting in Oklahoma and it was mind blowing the amount of ducks we killed. I saw first hand my theory on the evolution of duck hunting. Yes there were days, we used Ice Heaters. When our irrigation ponds would freeze, we would break open a small hole in the pond and throw an ice heater out while we hunted. When the hunt was finished, the ice heater was removed and the hole would freeze over. After three or four days of constant ice, the ducks would disappear. The crazy thing about it is, the ducks would not go SOUTH. They would fly back north to several reservoir lakes and hold up, until the ice melted. Once the ice melted the ducks could go back to their normal patterns. The amount of food that is readily available for the ducks up there is endless. Due to farmers evolving their farming practices to becoming more efficient on harvesting, rotating, and top sowing crops. I could walk across a cut corn field and what the combines left on the ground, the ducks would find. The farmers up there did not plow out the field. They would top sow winter wheat ( another food source). Soybeans are harvested the exact same way, what the combine doesn't pick up, the ducks find. The millet up there is harvested and what the combine doesn't pick up, the ducks find. I can go on and on, and whatever crop is harvested the results are the same. Look up 'No Till' farming and read the history of it. Farmers found a direct way to become more efficient and were able to double and even triple the income from the land they farmed. Indirectly that same practice, has caused a major change in the migration habits of our waterfowl. I am not saying this is the only cause for the change, so do not assume I am. Take a look at the last 5 'Farm Bill Acts' and how they have changed farming practices. Took a look at the 2007 Farm Bill Act and how Ethanol became a huge player in the change of farming practices. The amount of Ethanol that was needed to meet the Farm Bills requirements was almost 10xs higher than the previous bill. Farmers again found a direct way to take back and utilize land that wasn't being used before. Again, farmers planting more corn and using NO TILL practices indirectly affected our waterfowl migration habits. Just like humans, waterfowl have evolved to ensure their survival. Generations of existing waterfowl offspring are evolving year after year. The ducks are learning that they do not need to make the long journey south to the marsh we all enjoy hunting. If you had to drive two hours to buy groceries and a new grocery store was built five minutes away, would you still drive the two hours? The answer is NO, you wouldn't. No matter how upset the owner of the store two hours would be, you would still drive five minutes to the new store. These generations of ducks have learned and adapted to the ever changing world around them. There is a bigger picture surrounding the use of 'Ice heaters, hot cropping, or whatever people want to call it'. Again, do not assume I am saying these are the only factors for the change in migration. What I will say is, as a hole I can almost guarantee the practices listed above far outweigh the affect in the migration change, than 'ice heaters, hot cropping, etc....' Ice heaters, hot cropping, mojos, etc can be banned and that might have a small noticeable affect, but overall it will not change waterfowls constant evolution. Rivers and reservoir lakes in the lower 48 states will always remain open. 'Climate Change, no Climate Change' we all know Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, etc, have never stayed locked up with ice all season long. As much as I hate to say this, until those states freeze, and are completely covered with snow for 60 straight days or the practices listed above are no longer used, the migration will be forever changed. Please take the time to research the practices listed above, create a timeline and I am positive that timeline will coincide with the change in the migration. Do I wish I was still able to drive thirty minutes and enjoy some of the best duck hunting ever? Yes, absolutely, but the very same land I once hunted, no longer holds even a fraction of the waterfowl it once did. As a hunter, I have evolved and adapted with the changes in the migration of our waterfowl. Like it or not, I did it because I know the days of old are long gone.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
fowlhooked,The mention is of grain OR other feed that has been distributed and no mention is made specifically of sunflowers or sunflower seeds.Too bad ole Harry Lee aint around to explain what happened to him and bunch of folks that apparently got nabbed for dove hunting a field that had been 'baited',even though they claimed no knowledge of it.To be perfectly clear,it is incumbent upon the ethical hunter to inspect those fields to make absolutely certain no seeds or grain has been dispersed,whether intentionally or not.One of the key words is 'normal agricultural operation'.Now here comes the definition of NORMAL AGRICULTURAL OPERATION(Caps from Hunting Regs).A normal agricultural planting,harvesting,post-harvest manipulation,or agricultural practice that is conducted in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the USDA.Read those regs carefully!!Might just need a good lawyer to interpret them!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Geez Ill agree with you on that one!I thinks are laws should be clearer and fair for all. Time for me to go uptown, have a few coctails and as you can probably tell some of my posts were probably posted after I have had a few. I hope you have a good season next year
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Mandevillian, you are exactly right about a Normal Agricultural operation. Shouldn't need a lawyer or the CES to determine if a corn field flooded to the ears is normal with no intent on ever harvesting the crop, but with whats going on in the world today why would anyone expect anything different.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Uhhh yeah he got caught hunting doves over a field with visible feed on the ground in Mississippi and thought since who he and hunting parties were would get away with it. Nope all were ticketed. Because its illegal to hunt over bait. Look guys I started this post to bring awareness to SOUTHERN WATERFOWLERS. After speaking with josh goins and listening to laws that were changed and or altered by no til farming, being able to hunt feed remnants on the ground, and anything else that has been altered and allowed that is putting our southern traditions in jeopardy. If you speak with him for a while or listen to some of the youtube videos its quite disheartening. He is making a push to get legal action taken to make changes. If we all just sit back and say theres no way it will be done. We will never know til we get involved and as a force try and make a difference. To all hunters DOWN HERE you have to be sick and tired of going to your leases, blinds, ponds, marsh and seeing next to nothing and wondering what the hell happened to our ducks. At least if you get involved you can say we made an attempt. If no one does well find yourself a good deer lease or drive north for ducks. No thanks I am a true Cajun southern marsh man. And hope to see my son and possibly grand kids have something left
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
duckbuster2013, Thank you for bringing attention to this problem, you sir are spot on!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Guys,Josh and I spoke today,not to the degree that we usually do and had been doing and I went to the website,watched the videos and gotta lotta momentum going forward and gonna be hard to stop the momentum he has generated!!All in for his organization and hard to ignore what he has gotten,lotta facts,facts,more facts,not opinions but data and facts!!!Hard to ignore the back-to-back miserable seasons most of LA endured and even harder when you realize he has probably over 20 years of weather data and guess what,worst winters did not equate to best duck seasons,anyone wanna venture a guess why???Again,he and I know that you can't run from facts and he has many more items ready for release,just wait to see what transpires!!!Kinda reminds me of Fox 8 Investigative Reporter Lee Zurik exposing plenty of faults in Health Insurance-got ole United Health Care caught with plenty of blame regarding 'claw-backs' where poor consumers were getting tattooed paying way more for prescription drugs than what was warranted!!!!!Love stirring de pot!!!!!

Mandevillian
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Duckbuster,there have been no laws changed or altered cause of no-till farming! Is there some waste grain left yes is it baiting no so lets outlaw no-till farming WHAT? LETS OUTLAW NO_TILL FARMING! To mandevillan,lets see the facts ,facts ,facts, The fact is it has been never ILLEGAL to flood standing corn! The fact is the bird act allowed us to all of of sudden flood corn is a lie! we have done it for 60 years!The fact is there is a lot of new habitat here southern Missouri arkasas elsewhere. I am ready for all these newfound facts from josh IT is habitat ,habitat, habitat, and weather!! Ducks are not going to migrate to Louisiana to eat crawfish, they are like I am fat and fu----lazy they are going to only go as far as they have too! nobody here running from the facts lets see them So the ffl is going to get no-till farming outlawed,wrp outlawed,flooded corn outlawed ,artificially pumping water outlawed warm weather outlawed ,ice eaters out outlawed, Greenhead1 is flooding rice fields a normal ag operation?Dont tell me water is needed to grow rice! ok you flood it for weed suppression drain it to harvest then reflood to duck hunt! normal ag practice? The fact is there are thousands of acres of duck habitat north of you guys and your not going to change that !but I do hope your ducks return and I can see the passion of your past! Like I said beore flooded corn is not the reason for your poor seasons!lets see all the these new found facts !Maybe Josh needs to get 20 years of new habitat construction in all states!not just weather. maybe we all can sit sown a drink a beer some day
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Duckbuster I hope like hell you can pass the tradition on southern Louisans duck hunting on to your son and grandkids! I really do and if you can get the current laws changed so be it but we are not outlaws up here . I play within the rules and law I f you guys can get then changed hey great!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Fact, corn grown is legal to hunt? Fact a sack of corn thrown in a pond to hunt waterfowl is baiting! Tell me everyone, what's the difference? I think most of us know the answer to this question.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Where did all the GREY ducks go? No they didn't go to flooded corn,they migrate due to the moon and photoperiod, so where are they? they are in all of the new habitat north,east and west of you guys!Wrp moist soil plants!!! no deer pea here .yet!
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
Greenhead 1 I don't know the answer! fact hunting rice is legal, throwing out broadcasting rice is baiting! It is what it is its not the corn that is creating your bad seasons, if it wasn't for blackbirds we would plant and flood rice here.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
geenhead1 kind of like what is pass interference and what is not! I believe it was pass interference but it should never have even gone there
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
My above statement applies to all agricultural crops not just corn.
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Re: All south hunters join flyway federation
It was a great discussion. Time to move on. Thanks!!
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