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Statewide management

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Don't you think that the state needs to have a statewide deer management program. We have the perfect habitat for whitetail deer(cover, feed, ect). I think the limit of 6 deer per person is too much in Louisiana verses the number of hunter in the state. I feel like the state shoud have a 3 deer per person limit, or a buck must have 3 points on one side and have a 3 buck and 3 doe limit. How do you feel? If there would be a statewide management, just think of the deer you would see. It would just take two years of sacrifice to see a change.
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I agree
I personally agree. nut this topic come sup every year and some guy always says " go to simmons sporting goods.com and see the buiggest spike part of the big buck contest". I believe we should go 4pt or better like MS. And you should be able to trade a doe tag for a buck tag. But you know there is gonna be some meat hog deer "hunter" who totally disagrees because he cant kill his yearly yerling button buck.
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State Management
Mudbug, I agree with you and Jake. The state needs some type of management program statewide in my opinion. I stated in another post on yesterday, that I was in MS when they implemented the 4pts only rule. Everyone was upset across the entire state and didn't want to go along with it, but the state Wildlife Dept. stuck with their decision. Ask anyone in MS what they think about the law now and they well tell you how it only helped the entire deer population and quality of deer in MS. There will always be those that say, they hunt for meat and have hundreds of reasons why they don't want to follow a management plan statewide. Years ago, I decided I wasn't going to shoot any spikes or 4pts, no matter where I hunted. I would rather shoot a doe, if I need meat during that time.. If someone else decides to shoot them, it's there choice, but I feel managing the herd on private or public land starts with me.
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LIMIT
The limit is set by WHO? The reason for 4 or 6 deer/year is what? I don't know enough about the WHOLE deer population in the State, but I do know that it differs from area to area.
So,,, the area you hunt may very well have a lot to do with the amount of deer you see. I hunt all over the state and I think the Basin, In SOME areas could use less kills than lets say Monroe area or Ruston. BUT 10 miles from where I hunt in the Basin I have buddies that see TONS of deer... So how do we equalize the major population differences and keep a good balance of the herds? I think the state is doing the best it can with the differences thru out the state.. MY $.02
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Doe days
What about reducing the number of doe days on management areas from 2 days to 1 day? I can remember seeing tons of deer in the woods at red river wma and seeing every camp have a few hanging.......don't see that anymore.
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Change
They should go to a state wide 4 point or better.
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YES YES YES
Been pushing this issue for years to implement a QDM program statewide....esp. on public lands such as WMA's. We have the habitat and awesome genetics in this state. We rarely see those genetics in action due to most hunter use the brown its down theory on our public lands. A little bit of scarifice by all would put this state at the top of the trophy record book. I honestly believe that because I see it work in small areas of the state where leases have made leaps and bounds to produce monsters. I can only dream of our potential statewide if we had the right program in place.
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What can be done
What can sportsman do to get something done about this issue. Who can we contact.
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Change
I agree the state needs change to help produce better deer in this state. I also believe that the tagging system should it be enforced will help but I think more needs to be done. I am not sure 4 pt. or better is the best way to acheive this. I hunt in a club that is 6pt or better and we routinly let 6 pointers walk. However the 8 pts. are seldom seen/killed. The clubs around us all shot 6-8 points or better. I think going to a 4 deer 2 buck 2 doe system would be better, for starters. I dunno but I agree we need change.
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4pt
If the state would go to a 4pt or 6pt min. state wide, within 4 seasons we would be killing better deer.. I went to 8pt or better and it took 5 years for it to pay off. Now they are taking 8pt outside the ears... I have brought this up with Mr. Kerney Soiner when he was running area 6.. He said the it would be good for about 1/3 of the state.. He showed me some DMAP records from a club in Iberville parish and they are killing 4 & 5 year old spikes and 3pts... You got to have it in the blood line or your not going to have anything.....
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My vote
Strict tagging requirments and reporting requirements should be implemented. BTW, poachers need to do jail time, mandatory.

Based on the deer population and the need to harvest a significant number of deer to keep the population in check my vote would be for the following (at least north of I-10):

A maximum of 4 deer per season INCLUDING no LESS than three does and no more than one buck (you could kill 4 does if you chose to). Buck would have to have four points on one side of which at least one tine must be at least 7 inches OR ANY spike buck that has at least one tine 9" or greater.

Deer below 75 lbs. regardless of gender would be illegal to shoot also.

Too me this would be a few simple rules to follow, no excuses if it's broken. When in doubt pass or get burned. This would remain in effect for a minimum of four years then a study on the effects would be recorded and rules could be modified as needed.

This may not be enough in people's eyes and it's not necessarily enough in my eyes either, but I think it's fair to the meat hunters as well as it gives us some opportunity at increasing the deer quality and at the same time keeping the deer herd in check.

Addition:

Know of property in a parish known for brown and down. Owner purchased it 3 1/2 years ago (this was fourth hunting season). Property was littered with does and small bucks from poor management. Implemented food plots (year round plots the last 2 years) and minimal supplemental feeding. Property is less than 700 acres. Increased doe harvest, instituted an 8 point or better rule. YES, there were some mistakes and some 6 points shot during youth hunts (first deer only) as well as in bow season. Well 4th year and he just took a 210 lb. 8 pt. with a 17" spread. Not great but look what can happen in just 3 1/2 years!!!!

PS: He has four other 8 pts. and a 10 pt. on cameras (130 - 140 class nothing shocking..... yet)that probably exceeds 230 lbs.

Good things are coming!!!!!! and they could be coming across this state.

Comments???????

Just my 2 cents!!!!
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BUCKS
YOU CAN'T EAT THE HORNS THERE JUST TO TOUGH UNLESS YOUR A SQUIRREL
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State Wide Management
Good points Ruger, I know of a property in central louisiana that had the brown it's down attitude and 2yrs. ago, they started seeing fewer and fewer deer, the ones that were killed were does and yearlings early in the season, biggest one killed 2yrs ago was a 6pt, this year,more does and yearlings, not even seeing spikes. It goes to show me that, the brown it's down attitude will catch up with any piece of land or property, public or private, more so on public, because that's what's occurring on public lands across the state. No one has the complete,exact, or correct way to do it, but you have to start somewhere and not everyone will be happy and all will have to sacrifice something to improve the hunting overall....my opinion only....
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my 2cents
shorter hunting seasons...........
dont want that ...kill fewer deer..
dont want that....quit complaining

some areas need to have as many deer taken as are seen!!!!!! if a wma is 80,000 acres with few hunters, maybe there should be a season longer than two weeks.... seasons are set until 2010-2011 that is when new regulations will be set... you want something done write it in....
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Hey Ruger
I agree 100%, but what you are saying is 8pt or better... Except for the messed up racks.. That would work for the area where I'm at.. The place where I was talking about where they went to 8pt or better is Delano Plantation and it was under DMAP and it was 2000 acres. Not all of it was hunted. A couple of 100 acres. We started off with 12 doe tags and when I left they were up to 35 and alomost filling them out.. I tried to make them shoot all of does early, cause once the rut got close no body wanted to shoot one just incase a buck might be close.. I also hunt in Arcaida in Clarborne Parish.. There are great deer there. If the state would start off like Miss. did, I think that in 4 sesons we would see a huge change. My place is just south of the Wal-Mart Dist. center.. There we have to types of horns growning.. The type that anyone would be proud to put on the wall(the wal-mart buck) and the other type I call the reindeer horns.. They grow straight up and the other tines alomst come forward.. We try to kill everyone that we see.. This year we killed 2 quality bucks an 8pt with 17" inside and a 9pt with just about the same look..

I also agree about the horns... they don't taste good and no matter how long you cook them, they will not get tender, but they sure look good on the wall....
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agree.. 6 point is not enough. ( 4 on 1 side)
I agree with any plan that up's the standard in the state.
Age is the number #1 factor in maturing and having a healthy heard. Wider, thicker, and longer antlers also come with age. We have great nutrition in the state.
LDWF sells tags for dif weapons. 3 bucks is alot but, it would help if the 3rd buck must be taken with a primitive weapon. I hear you will be able to buy a 4th buck this upcoming season. That is horrible because the old rule was 6 and you may be able to take 7... 4 of which are bucks(wrong Ratio). GOING THE WRONG WAY GUYS:: But you can still shoot 3 doe. Talk about get populations out of WACK!!
Most of your DMAP lands only give 1 tag per member because that is what is easy to manage where still 2x more bucks are killed than does.
As many of us disagree with, there are many that have the same rights as us to take a limit as fast as they can as we do to try and have a healthy heard.We all live and pay taxes here.The rules allow it. Until a majority of the Hunters want quality we will never have it. There are tags for primitive weapons that cost money. Boost those sales and allow buck #3 to only be taken with a primitive weapon. This will also force more selection during gun season. Selling a muzzleloader and bow tag is much easier than selling a 4th Buck. Many will buy the tag and not fill it.
In the meanwhile. MEMBERSHIP MGNT, MEMBERSHIP MGNT, MEMBERSHIP MGNT
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Berretta
Well said Beretta. I think that my system would work anywhere north of I-10 in my opinion and a lot of areas south of I-10 that I know of too. Sure some areas would be a little slower than others at establishing a mature buck population meeting the 8 point or better, but with the genetics and food we have in the central and northern parishes there would be lots of 8 points around if we Let Um Grow

I also am a firm believer that the doe harvest will seek its own equilibrium. i.e. you will only harvest a certain percentage of the does regardless of the hunting pressure, more hunting pressure equals less deer sightings anyway.

P.S. During this year I have seen many young kids on this site with their first deer. Now's the time to start the next generation of deer hunters in our state off on the right foot.
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Science
I say whatever the science says is what we should go with. I think overall herd strength is the most important. Not worried about big horn managment. A trophy ought to be something not everyone can kill. Only for those that get real lucky or who put in the time in the field.

I consider my hunts to be sucessful based upon the # of deer I see not kill. When I finally get past the kid raising stage of my life, hopefully I will be able to spend the time to hunt a big one and/or put my sons on one.
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Well
I have seen first hand what a 4pt or better rule does and at our lease we shoot 8 points and better unless a 6 point pops out and you know he wont be much better we put him down. We dont score our deer we just decide if it is a decent buck if yes blast him. My uncle killed a 12pt last week. If someone would have balsted him as a spike he would have never made it to 5 1/2 yr old 12pt.
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Southern
Yea, after all the crying for the first couple of years, I think you would actually see people passing on the pencil thin 8's and waiting for "the man" if it was one buck only like I propose.
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................
Ya'll paint a sad picture of Louisiana. Maybe you should stop reading so many magazines and watching them slick TV shows and get out in the woods and find that big buck . They out there, they don't get big by being stoopid.
I know the area where I hunt (state land), the folks regularly hunting it are by and large "good" hunters. The "brown it's down" mentality left on the bus a while back. A topic of discussion around the ol' table last week was about how in the last 20 years the poachers have been run out. That along with some good storms to knock out the tree tops and let the sunlight in, has done more to improve deer hunting than anything else.
Ya'll need to stop worrying so much and hunt more / better.
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Gauger
I'm glad for you if your area is that good, but I don't think you can deny that the deer quality could be better all across this state. You can't look on this site and honestly tell me that QDM (harvesting quality mature bucks)is practiced in the state as much as it could or should be! In lots of areas the pressure is so great (I'm talking shooting pressure, not just being in the woods pressure) that the big bucks go noctural quick.

I'm all for enjoying the wonderful Louisiana tradition of deer hunting (BTW, that's no matter how you do it) and a large part of that enjoyment is killing and eating the deer. All I'm saying is that if you want meat, harvest a doe and wait on a mature buck if you want to kill a buck. It's fun matching wits with a mature deer (buck or doe for that matter).

Know what I mean bean?????

BTW mud, great post for conversation.
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I hear ya bean.
But i remember back when I was a kid (I'm 40) and there just wasn't many deer killed. Now you hear folks talkin' about "I killed 3 does for sausage, passed on a small 8, and took a 10 last week with 1365" main beams, 265# field dressed, his arteriel tarsal scrotum was swollen from excessive rutting on the neighbors deer dogs, yada yada blah blah."
And I think it's great. There are deer every frickin' where in this state. I'm glad to see kids taking deer their first year huntin'. Hell, I hunted for almost 5 years befor I put one down, but I never gave up 'cuz that's how bad I wanted it.
The deer are there and they are as big as ever and are probably gonna get bigger. Folks ain't havin' to hunt to feed the family. It a liesure activity for us nowadays. I'm just tryin' to tell ya'll to relax, have fun, don't forget the basics, and get after it. Your time will come, just as my time will (I still don't have a wallhanger.....DOH!!!).
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Management
On our property We have a severe problem with trespassing and those guys shooting deer during the week, or heck even when we're there. Nobody around us is QDM and as soon as the 6 pts. walk off they either get shot at night by the locals or next door, or on our property for that matter by the locals. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I just don't know what side of the fence to jump off of.

Also, to my knowledge, Kansas, Ill., Iowa, and all those bruiser states don't have antler restrictions like 6 pts or 4 pts, but you can only kill one buck.
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Deer Management
I kind of agree with TP. If it got where everyone would kill a "trophy" every year, where would the excitement go? I know that the reason I deer hunt is for the chance to get one of those "trophy bucks". I have a trophy 9pt. on my wall already, but it was killed 6 years ago. That was probably one of the most exciting days of my hunting career, but if it was to happen every year, it would not be such a big thing. Don't want to upset anyone, just my opinion.
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Same Old B.S. Again
Why must someone bring this up every year? A state wide point system, one buck rule or what ever Same old B.S.
Why would anyone with half a brain think that what is good for North La would be good for every where? There are at least 7 different types of habitat here in La. That is why we have 7 different areas with different seasons. If you want to impose some kind of rules then do it on your land, but don't tell me how or what to hunt on my land.
Now if you can show me how to manage a small chunk of land that is surrounded by 70 thousand acres of WMA I might be intrested.
Also the six deer are fine, how many people do you know that have killed 6 in a season? We have 30 something members and out of all of them I only know 1 person to kill 6 deer in one season. He is in the woods everyday and is real selective on what he shoots, as long as it is brown, at least 115lbs, and looks like a deer he'll shoot it. Now let me tell you why he kills 3 of the deer he kills, the 3 get donated to people who can't hunt any more.
Which everyone in the club is fine with because most of the people use to be club members.

Any way what would work in Monroe would not work in Houma.
Where there are monsters killed in north La, what we consider a trophy here is south la is different. The deer grow different in all areas of the state.
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ruger
Ruger
I am with ya but, that will never pass in this state we will be doing great to reduce them one at a time or maybe even make #3 tougher to get. I can just hear the Moaning already.HA. Most will pop the first legal deer of the season. #2 will have to be more selective no doubt. Very low percentage hunt primitive weapons after the standard season. If they killed in the early 85 degree primitive weapon season. They earned it. No matter what it will cause them to be more selective during gun season allowing Bucks everywhere to slip past and grow another year. They can get 3-4 doe as a limit and that would be plenty of meat to do with what they want to.
Let Mr. Pencil Horns get another year on him.
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hollowpoint
I don't think that Louisiana will ever get to the point that everyone would kill a trophy.. Or see a trophy eveytime they went hunting. The main reason for a point restriction is to let the deer put some age on.. A survey was done quite a few years back. It was taken from private land and WMA's.. The life span for a Louisiana Whitetail Buck is 1.5 years old.. If (never happen) Louisiana would ever go to something like that your chances would be better to kill a "trophy". Once a whitetail buck becomes 3.5 years old the go alomost nightturnal(that is what we call them) and only would be seen while the rut is on strong, or if he is jumped.

When I had my shop I would ask a hunter how did you do this weekend. He would say.. Killed a 3pt satruday, then he would ask me the same question,,, I'ed say killed a maiden doe... He would say.. I can't belive that you killed a doe.... Here ya go...

First:: why do we hunt.. Fun, Food, Trophys, camp life.
Second: Food=Bullsh*t deer meat is over $50.00 a pound
Third: Trophys.. to me a trophy is in the eyes of the beholder.. you can go back on my report and comments and I have never said anything but congats on someones deer..
With that said....
Fourth:: Fun....well if you call sitting 40' up in a lock-on facing the north with a 15mph wind blowing and it's 37degrees YOU CALL THAT FUN.... D#M RIGHT I DO!!

I would ask the old man (65) Let me give you a this option.. you are hunting and 4 deer walk out... A 3pt, a large doe, very small doe and a medium size doe... which one would you shoot... Before i could finish he was saying I'ed shoot that buck.... I ask why?? Cause it's a buck.... That is how MANY people think in this state...
He would ask me which one I would shoot.. I'ed shoot that medium doe... He ask why... Well that 3pt is no trophy in my book so let him grow & get some age on himself, not enough meat on the small doe and why shoot a doe that is reproducing and raising a young one well... That is why I would shoot the medium doe...

Example... go into 9th grade class room... most to the boys there will be about the same size, then there he is a monster - huge.. go into 12th grade class, most of the boys have grown about the same with several monsters among them..
The main point is the let them get some age, and everyone will see what louisiana can grow..
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QDM is not for everyone
We started a ODM program this season and it seems to be going well for the members that bought in to QDM,but when you have a big culb (60 members) it will take a few years to weed out the members that don't want to support managment and still have the old "it's brown it's attitude"
and we will send them packing.
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Finished
I'm finished on this one. My head's starting to hurt!!!!!!
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NICE
Isn't it nice that we can argue about how to manage the numbers of deer we have??? JUST SHOOT OR DON"T SHOOT!!!!!!! EITHER WAY ENJOY IT AND LET YOUR NEIGHBOR ENJOY IT HIS WAY!
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too many does
my thinking is that the state is letting us shoot to many flat heads. if you shoot 1 doe today you killed 3 deer. the doe and 2 babies. next year you would have killed that doe, the baby doe and its single little one, and the the doe's button buck. the next year the doe, its baby doe and button buck, the baby doe's little one from the year before and 2 more little ones this not the mention the 4 babies the original doe killed first would have had the last 2 years. this goes on and on. 6 deer limit is too much period. the tagging system is a joke because people killed more than 3 bucks and some more than 6 deer. the whole 6 point or better would be fine with me but that would be tough to pass. i think we should have 5 doe days where you can kill 1 doe. next you should be allowed 3 bucks the first anything with horns then 6 point or better for the second, 8 point for the third. (progression hunting) if you kill an 8 point first you are hunting 8 or better the rest of the season. the tagging system must improve where you put a certain metal -one time use tag- on a certain sized deer. color coded for doe, small buck, 6 or better, 8 or better. they should not give you but one tag at a time either. you kill one you apply for another. this can cut down on a man shooting multiple deer in one hunt. i hunt in lafourche parish and do alot of hunting (sitting in the stand for hours) and do not see many deer. i saw 14 all year which is great but could be improved if the state would do something. just my opinion
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We are doing it now........it's up to you
My husband and i have a lease in the marsh and i am sure your saying oh yea they have lots of deer and yea they do. But if you don't manage you will not have any nice bucks.For the past few years we have been shooting 6 points and up this past year we changed it to 8 point and up. And you would be suprise at what we seen. The prettiest 5,6,7, you can't think about what everybody else is doing on there lease. cause we have people around us thats not doing it. But look at it like this if they not pressured they going to stay put. You can do your own deer management you don't have to wait for it to be the law. We did
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i agree
I agree too many does. Kinda like raising cattle if you go out and kill half of your mama cows how many bull calfs will you have next year. Progression size is not a bad idea I've seen it work on private land in central louisiana. Lots of nice bucks now on that place.
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Gauger, Acornhead, Roadhead
Gauger, Acornhead, and Roadhead have the right ideas. As soon as I have to put up with some idiot looking over my shoulder with either a tape measure or a scale I think I'll just quit. I have six wall-hangers at home and not a one was killed on property utilizing any type of management plan.

On the other hand I don't really care what the state does with its management areas. I don't hunt them.
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basin deer
I agree @least 4 point or better and not all the doe days either just think how many button buck were killed this season with being able to shoot a doe any day in the basin.
I also know of some people who have killed way over the 6 deer limit
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MISSISSIPPI RESEARCH ON ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
Another perspective on antler restrictions:

Biologists from Miss. St. Univ. and the state of Miss. evaluated the effects of the 4 pt. antler restriction on 22 public areas in Mississippi by comparing 1991-1994 and 1997-2001 data. The harvest shifted from 59% 1.5 year males prior to regulation to 83% 2.5 and >2.5 year males after regulation. However, harvest rate of 2.5 year males did not change, and there was only a small increase in harvest of >2.5 males. Total harvest decreased from 3.1 to 1.8 bucks per 405 hectares. Also, antler size within age classes generally declined. The authors concluded that antler restrictions should be considered a short-term solution to age-structure problems because of the potential negative biological effects. Other research on antler restrictions in other states have shown that significant increases in harvest rates of mature males required more than antler restrictions; reduced hunter access and/or opportunity for harvest would be necessary to achieve the management goals.

The study was published in the 2005 Proceedings of the Southeastern Fish and Wildlife Agencies.
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Some very good points here
I think a 4pt or better would work for the entire state. If you want to shoot 6pt,8pt,4 on one side, then you have the power to do it. I think 6 deer is a little much and if you say that you are doing it to feed your family then you are in the wrong business. It is cheaper to buy beef.

If you buy a rifle license---you get 3 tags/ 2 either sex/1 antlerless only.

If you buy a primative weapon license---you get an additional either sex tag and antlerless only.

This will bring the total up to 5 tags and 3 buck tags if you want to hunt all the seasons and are lucky enough to shoot 3 bucks. If you want meat then shoot 5 does.

A youth should be able to shoot anything.

OR we could do like some other states and give out 2 tags and once you fill them you have the option to buy more tags.
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Or better yet
Why dont they just close down the season for 2 years, imagine how many deer you would see. Its only 2 years of sacrifice and you would definately see change....
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Manage to keep your freezer full
I spend $500 a year on lease alone not to sit and watch 30-40 head before I can eat. With my experience we have plenty of quality bucks with the way it is now. But once a whitetail deer turns 3 yrs. old he becomes 90% nocturnal anyhow. More of our trophy bucks die of old age or get killed when there on the decline. I have numerous friends and neighbors that have pictures of huge bucks on trail cams only at night and to my knowledge have survived another season. For the average joe you do not kill trophies on a yearly basis that is why they call them a deer of a lifetime. I was also told one time by a veteran wildlife and fisheries agent that deer were like squirrels them more you kill the more they will produce. For those of you that do not consume deer meat sit and watch and wait for your shooter. There are 3 hunters in my family and we consume a minimum of 12 deer a year.
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Brown-N-Down
I am not a trophy hunter and never plan to be a trophy hunter. I hunt on Family owned land and when you get the chance to take a deer you do regardless of size and sex. I think that all of this trophy hunting is fine and dandy on your own land but I do not want someone else telling what I should do on my land.
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Too much talk.
Just look @ all the good bucks being killed now. More than ever. Choice is what I'm for. Take that away & then why hunt @ all. Want to shoot that big ole buck, pay for it. My choice is to grow um. If it meanes taking out certain spikes, I do it.
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Management plan?
The State already has a "managment" plan with the 6 deer limit. Anything beyond that is a wasted effort. The old system of 6 any-deer wasn't a broken one, and should have been left alone. It gave some latitude for the landowner,and clubs, to better "manage" deer on their lands as their observations of numbers and habitat conditions dictated...whether that was more does, or more bucks. Only Guager, Pigeon, Swamper and a couple others have the right idea...you shoot what you want,and leave me to my wants. For those of you that think less bucks,less days,point retrictions,etc., is the way to go,please look at the current issue of the "La. Conservationist",page 23. The results of last year's Harvest Card survey is shown. Even with only 29% of the licensed deer hunters submitting the cards,that's still a higher percentage of data than was secured by the old post-season surveys that reflected the hunting results of less than 2% of the licensed hunter...and,on which the WL&F Dept. said they used to make rules that govern all of us. Of interest is the Survey showed that the average antlered and antlerless kill per hunter was .8 on each sex deer(less than 1 deer per hunter).
The average number of deer per hunter was 1.7(4.3 deer less than the legal limit).Lowering the limit will accomplish what? Nothing! Oh, and the percentage of hunters that killed 3 bucks was 12%! That ain't gonna ruin the State's buck herd! I scoped 31 bucks this season,24 within kill range,but I only shot 2. Why? Because with the 3 buck limit,I passed a few knotty bucks that should have been taken out,but was waiting on another big one for my limit. That "limit" was a big 10 pointer,but I had a friend's kid with me,and I let HIM take the shot. His first deer,and I was just as proud as he. A great 2 (two) buck season!
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Management
There are alot of factors in play for Deer management. Louisiana has a great natual habitat for whitetail deer, but you can't apply the same tactics to the marsh that are in play in let's say Tensas Parish. And given our current deer population we really aren't killing large quantities of good 3 1/2yr+ bucks. Unless people realize that more does should be harvested earlier in the season trophy bucks will be slim. I am not saying that nice trophy bucks aren't killed but when you look at the % of hunters this state has its a really low number of mature trophy bucks. - Haise
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point restrictions don't work
i am sure some one has already made this clear, but the fact is that point restrictions don't produce bigger deer. what is called "high grading" occurs and average antler size per age class goes down. in short "high grading" is as follows: you have a 4 points on one side rule on your lease and a 2 year old, 160#, 13" basket rack 9 point and a 200#, 16", 4 year old 6 point eating at your corn pile. you can't shoot the 6pt because of the 4 point on one side rule and smoke the 9pt and leaving the 6pt to breed all the does. now, you have just taken the deer with the good genes out of the herd before he ever had a chance to breed a doe and left the 6 point with the bad genes to remain dominant and breed the does.

there was a big article in the sportsman about this a couple of years ago. that is why the state has not adopted a point restriction.

the only thing that is proven to work to produce larger antlers is to get bucks to a higher age class and kill less desirable bucks. the only way to do that is through either selective harvest, reduced buck limits, beam length, or inside spread restrictions. with a 15" inside spread restriction that 6 point mentioned above would be a goner and the 9 would be quite impressive the next year. after a couple of years of that you would be crapping in your pants at the deer on your lease.

i have seen this work first hand on a friend of mine's lease in texas and another place where i used to get invited to hunt here in louisiana. my friend ended up losing their lease in texas because the owner wanted it back because all of a sudden there were nice deer on the property. they used selective harvest to do this. they shot all of the "crappy horned" deer and let the good young bucks walk. the results were 130" to 150" older 8,9,and 10 points being taken instead of 80" to 100" 2 year olds being taken. on the place in louisiana they would kill some nice deer and every once in a while a really big one. then they went to a 17" inside spread rule. now it has been about 5 years and they kill some of the biggest deer in the state. including a 186" non-typical a couple of years ago. now an invite there is much tougher to come by as you could imagine.

if the people of the state as a whole would just stop shooting everything that they saw, we would see results like these across the board. we have the genes here to rival any state in big buck production.
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wow
this thread has some really whacked out content. If you don't shoot does, they will over-populate, and the quality of antlers and deer in general will fall.
I was in a club on 3000 acres, and all the old-timers said "don't shoot the does", and only 3 or 4 does were harvested each year for a decade or more. There were few nice bucks taken, most had tiny racks, albeit there were 6 and 8 pts in there. When you would walk the woods/swamp in Oct squirrel hunting, you would easily see 20 or more deer, mainly does, in one morning. Finally, we started taking 10+ does/year, and in a few years, we had fewer deer, but they were healthier, weighed more, and had bigger racks.

too many does leads to over-browsing, and there is not enough food for deer to remain healthy. Do some real research, not just internet heresay, and you will see that our system is pretty good. Hardly anyone I know of has gotten their 6 deer limit.
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again
Just wanted to comment on the post regarding killing small spikes mistaken for does. If you show true concern then do some research and buy you a quality pair of binoculars. I understand that people will hesitate shooting a doe in fear that it might be a buttin buck due to many hunting camps having heafty fines regarding this matter. This is where research and binoculars come in handy. Does always travel in packs with a lead or head doe. The lead doe is in charge of basically ever action the group makes. She will always be the first one you see. So if your hunting and you see a deer walk out and you can see it has no horns, but are not sure if it might be a small buck, just wait!! Observe what she does and I can almost promise 2 to 3 more does will walk out right behind her. The following does always take orders from the lead doe. Does have a wonderful natual instinct to protect the genetics of the heard. They will run off most young bucks to prevent them from breeding with thier siblings. You have to remember bucks are always on the move, but if you have a large doe population you can ensure they will run off all the young bucks from your property and they will mature elsewhere. Probably the camp or lease next to yours. I am sure they will thank you later. Hope it makes sense and always make time for the outdoors! - Haise
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Crappy antlers
Mr.Coon, you said it with the "crappy" antlered deer. That's where the 6 any deer was a better system than the 3 buck limit. It is hard to shoot the "crappy" antlered ones when you want to get a couple good bucks and you can only kill 3. The old system would let you get a couple good ones and be able to take out at least 4 others,if they needed taken. Same thing on the does,if THEY needed thinning. Present system is "regressive" management that won't accomplish anything except to frustrate those that are trying to grow a few more better deer. The State boys need to realize this.
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sledge
i agree.

the whole point is not how many deer you kill, it is what deer you kill if you want big deer where you hunt. every area is different. the 6 of any deer is good for some place and not for others. you have to kill the does and inferior bucks. some places don't have a doe problem or inferior buck problem.

the state can't be managed as a whole. it has to be broken down into specific areas and then set limits to those specific areas. to do that the state would have to employ a lot more biologists to go out and survey the deer herd. we can't have that though because the ldwf is strapped for cash. they almost got the money that they deserved but as we all know blanco had some sand in a place no one wants to visit and shot the bill that went unanimously through the house down. if they would have gotten that money they could keep good biologists working for the state and not privately.
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Mr. Coon...
Good points Mr. Coon. One question though. What good are all those biologists and their studies when the Wildlife Commission votes against their reccomendations?
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Wildlife Commission
WOW. i forgot about them.

isn't that the most screwed up thing ever!

why is it always louisiana that comes up with junk like that?
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management
LaDWF manages the state deer herd to maximize the number of hunters, for license sales and tax revenues. More restrictions does not recruit hunters...it drives them out of hunting, so you are voices crying in the wilderness. Go buy another license for your entire family and make them happy.
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should we ban baiting?
I wonder why Mississippi seems to hold generally bigger bucks when in many respects they have the same deer and habitat. Yet we can feed deer all year long if we want using high protein foods.

I for one would like to see Louisiana ban feeding statewide during the hunting season and go to a 4 point or better rule except for hunters under 18. I personally think a private land baited 10 point trophy is not close to a public land eight point trophy deer to mount. Mississippi bans all baiting and they rely on foodplots and nature. They shoot huge deer. Once you allow baiting then every one competes on the bait and the only winners are the feed mills.

What do yall think?
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Miss.
Wetback,
Have personally hunted in many clubs and WMA's in both states so I can speak with some experience.
First, Miss has fewer hunters statewide than La.has.If they were to lower their license fees on La hunters, there would be an increase in total hunters statewide in Miss.By keeping the license fee high, they know the numbers will be low and not sacifice the revenue since the fee is so high. (Consequently, if La. would INCREASE the fee for a Miss resident to fish in La., that number would decrease too but wont happen as too many of our lawmakers hunt in Mississippi)
Secondy, Miss has a minimum antler restriction that we do not have -statewide.That matters most for what you indicated we need here.
In summary,Miss. has their act together in deer hunting, once again leaving La in the shadows
Baiting is not an issue .
Just my $0.02....
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MANAGEMENT ??
You can't manage the state as a whole. There are areas that have way too many deer and others not nearly enough. The state would have to take each area on a case by case basis. The downfall to that is all hunters are not created equal. Some get out there truck on opening day and walk 20 yards in the woods and complain there's no deer. Others put time in and learn to find and kill good deer. This is an interesting post and full of good ideas, but will drive people from hunting with more regulations.
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restrictions
antler restrictions do NOT garantee better bucks!
example 1:this year I took 2 2&1/2 year old spikes that only had 1 in spikes,no swollen necks,no stained hocks.
other bucks in the area were trailing does and making scrapes.
example 2:8 point a few years back only had 11 in spread,
deer was aged at 6&1/2 (never going to make 15 in
spread of club next door!)
we must still be allowed to take out scrubs or they will do all the breading!

ps:shoot more does to leave food for the bucks!
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wetback
Is there really a difference in putting out a pile of corn or planting a foodplot for them to feed on? Nevermind..thats a whole nother case of beer.
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well
baiting was not mentioned in the post but everyone on here knows how I feel about baiting. When I hunt in LA theres small pellets of gold all over the ground. I believe if you support american farmers you should be able to bait. 7bucks a bag or more and the state collecting tax on it I dont see why its illegal in many of these crooked states in our country. But I am all for a 4pt or better rule.
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doing a little reading....
look, i have been looking into miss. regulations and data for a while, and this quote says it best ..... data shows that the quality and rack size has NOT gotten any better since the 4pt rule was established... only the number in the heard has risen.

taken from a mississippi forum "I strongly disagree with ANY long-term management program, including state-wide management, where the bucks are chosen for harvest based solely on the number of antler points they carry. Even the relatively popular "8-point" minimum will, over time, lead to a herd with lower genetic potential for quality antlers. On just about any property where the herd is being held within the carrying capacity of the habitat, simply too many of the 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 bucks will carry 8 or more points. Subjecting the very best of each age class to harvest, while protecting those with inferior racks, will lead to problems in the long run. Most private professional managers refer to this harvest strategy as "High Grading" and avoid it like the plague."
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Diverse Habitat
Over the years, I've seen this same discussion several times. As I've pointed out several time, we have very diverse habitats through different regions of the state. 1 1/2 year old 6 points are common in northeast La., especially among the agricultural lands along the Mississippi river. Just this past weekend, my brother killed a 2 year old 8pt on Big Lake WMA, with a 15" spread and field dressed 125#. I've killed a 2 1/2 yr old 8pt that field dressed 142 in the piney hills. This season I've killed a 3 1/2 yr old 10 pt. that field dressed 173#. In the marshes, you'll be hard pressed to find a buck with a rack like any of those at such a young age.
As for the argument of antler restrictions for the sake of improvin age structure, the 2 8 points I mentioned are a perfect illustration of how little those restrictions would accomplish, to the end of age structure, in this region of the state.
I believe in letting the young bucks walk, and generally practice it, even when hunting on public land. I am firmly against a statewide mandated minimum antler restriction, though, for a couple of different reasons.
First, there is no harm done to the herd by a hunter that would kill A spike. I do, however, believe that harm CAN be done to the herd by anyone that would continue shooting a spike every time one walks out through the season. We have some people that don't get to spend much time in the woods, maybe only getting to hunt for only 1 or 2 days per season, yet hunting licenses still cost just as much for them as for the ones that spend almost every day in the woods. I think it's wrong to tell a hunter in that circumstance that he can't take the only deer he got to see all season, because somebody else didn't think it was old enough yet.
Another reason I'm against state mandated antler restrictions is that under a private management scenario, if you see an older buck that is CLEARLY mature, but has substandard antlers, you have the lattitude to harvest what is considered a cull buck. Under government imposed restrictions, you no longer have the abilitly to adequately manage the deer herd that you are hunting.
In short, not all of our deer herds across the state are the same, and the certainly can't all be managed properly with any statewide plan. In this part of the state, we've come a LONG way in the past few years with what we're seeing, on both public and private lands, I think probably due more to education and SPORTSMEN's attitudes than any other reasons. (Go to http://www.simmonssportinggoods.com/bigguck.asp to see some of the bucks from this area. Some may be from Ar and Ms, but half of them are from La.)
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Right on
Good post,Mikel. You are right on! As someone said,if you want the good bucks, you may have to hunt for them. Too many people aren't willing to do that.
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state wide law
I haven't read all the comments and don't know if this has been said, but, what if Louisiana went to a 2 buck limit for residents and a 1 buck limit for non residents. This is how Illinois does it and they seem to be doing fine.
This will make people think twice about shooting small bucks. After a few years there will be large bucks, so not many people will want to shoot a small one anymore.
I know this is Louisiana and it will never work.
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Back In for ONE more time
After seeing all the posts, I'm going to come back into this post one more time and change my mind to a plan EVEN MORE SIMPLE. Let's make it simple, only thing that's enforceable! Private leases, can be more stringent if you want, do what you'll want and reap the benefits.

1 buck per season, any buck
3 does per season
Can substitue the buck for a doe
Can BUY an extra buck (any buck) for $50.00 - $100.00 at the time of purchase of license or get one at Wally World for the life time holders.

Easy, not complicated, but maybe will get a FEW people to let the small bucks walk.

Anybody In!!!!!
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boone & crockett entry article
i just ran across this article because i wanted to see if mississippi produced more b&c bucks than louisiana. read the "Why do some counties produce so many entries?" part. it is really relevant to this discussion. the article shows maps of where b&c bucks were taken and gives some insight on why some places produce the big boys consistently.

http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_whitetail.asp?area=bgRecords

"The relationship between deer densities and number of entries is also interesting. States with high deer densities and long firearms seasons with liberal bag limits produce, on balance, fewer entries. States with lower deer densities, shorter gun seasons, and more restrictive buck harvests tend to produce more entries. A good comparison is between Ohio, which averages around 10 deer per square mile, and Mississippi, which averages more than 30."

"Perhaps the most interesting pattern is the impact state management practices can have on entries. In Kansas, modern rifle season takes place after the rut, while in Oklahoma it generally falls during the peak of the rut. Also, the black powder season in Kansas is in mid-September, when the trees still wear leaves and temperatures are high. In contrast, Oklahoma’s black powder season occurs in late October and early November, when temperatures are cool, bucks are starting to rut, and the leaves are falling. Since the majority of bucks killed are taken during gun seasons, timing those seasons so bucks are less vulnerable gives the animals time to mature. Similar differences are apparent between seasons and the number of big-buck entries from Iowa and Missouri, Ohio and West Virginia, and Nebraska and Kansas.

The maps produced for this article give hunters an accurate picture of where B&C-class bucks are being taken. Though your odds are definitely higher in certain states and counties, the maps also show that entries come, literally, from all over. They have come from 1,443 different counties, half the counties in the forty-two states that have produced entries. So no matter where you hunt, there is always a “geographical chance” of bringing home a record book buck!"
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I AGREE
I agree the state needs to do something to help . Its a fact that the clubs that have stronger rules reap the benefits . I am in a private lease in central La that has clubs around us that shoot anything ,an not many mature bucks.We started 3 yrs ago on 6 pts or better an thats not much ,you're still killing some 2 2.5 year old deer but this year we killed 4 buck a 9pt two 8pts an one six but now days we are seeing plennty more mature deer in the wood an on cameras . That just shows that anything can help!
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How many per season?
Alabama is 1 doe per day for a 79 day season. Our herd ratio hasn't changed in ten years no matter how many we shoot. Do you realize that almost every doe will have at least 1 fawn, probably 2. If you shoot every mature doe in a season there will be a healthy herd of yearlings the next season anyway. I do believe a buck restriction would be great. 2 bucks and progressive. (2nd better than the 1st). If you shoot a spike, at least you can't shoot another.
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